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Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

nytimes.com

111–120 of 169 posts

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#111
post #3

Since I can't read the article I can only go with story time here- my wife has cameras in her room and she loves them. Fights about 'who started it' are ended with the words, 'Ok, let's look at the video'. And when some little bully gets called on the carpet and their bullying parent comes in all set to steamroller administration with 'that's not what my child said happened why are you picking on them' the principal…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#112
post #10

The paywalls on all major news sites are driving me crazy. Not because they cost money (I am willing to pay), but because it's not practical to buy an online subscription to 10+ major news sites individually. Is there a service that lets you pay 1 monthly fee for a subscription to the top 10 major (paywalled) news sites?

Paying for news only rewards paywalls.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#113
post #3

Since I can't read the article I can only go with story time here- my wife has cameras in her room and she loves them. Fights about 'who started it' are ended with the words, 'Ok, let's look at the video'. And when some little bully gets called on the carpet and their bullying parent comes in all set to steamroller administration with 'that's not what my child said happened why are you picking on them' the principal…

My partner is a teacher here in Ontario Canada. We couldn't be more against this idea.

Sure, your example of conflict resolution seems nice but there is no crisis of "who started it" that needs this level of intrusion. Truth is these classroom conflicts almost never have a clear cut instigation point. I guarantee you a bully will figure out how to egg another student on outside of the camera's view and then slyly provoke that student when the tape is rolling. These conflicts start outside, on the sidewalk, last week, on the internet ect. These are complex social dynamics that are best dealt with using the teacher's training and experience combined with addition school staff when needed.

Her classroom is a friendly place where students learn a second language. It must be protected from this.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#114
post #72
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Public schools have their problems. But most can be mitigated by "voting with your feet" I would like to note that this is tantamount to voting with your wallet. Areas with more expensive housing will have better public schools.

In USA, because they're funded by house taxes

Not always; in California, for example, property taxes were vitiated by Prop 13, and so the state budget covers most of education costs (60%), which in theory should mean less local variation. In practice it means schools in wealthy districts hold "bake sales" where rich parents make sizeable donations (like auctioning off their timeshare in Tahoe) to their kid's school. The result is the same - schools full of rich kids have plenty of money, schools full of poor kids don't.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#115
post #39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Not worth it. There are mountains of evidence demonstrating that people change their behaviors when they know they are being watched. Do we really care about the automatic resolution of petty squabbles between children, or even the coercion of children to never engage in petty squabbles? Do we really want to rob children of mischief, conflict resolution, and making a case for themselves in a way that cannot alw…

No one actually watches the video, unless something happens. And this is an elementary classroom- resolution of petty squabbles means 28 kids don't get to learn while 2 others yell 'he did it first'. They can be beasts to each other at recess.

Not right now maybe. The system will by laid in place before the truly objectionable use cases start cropping up.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#116

Currently trying to decide how to school my kids ages 3yr and 1yr. Public, private or homeschool. Parents who have been there, How did you choose?

We live in one of the top districts in the state, and chose our house specifically because of this, so my kids will go to the public school.

My wife was actually a teacher in the local district before we had kids, so we know how things go down.

The key is parent involvement. The more involved you are with the school, the more you'll hear about how your kid is actually doing "through the grapevine" which will give you a chance to address any issues at home.

My wife plans to volunteer most days of the week, and I will also try to go at least once or twice a week in the morning.

I know that is not suitable for everyone, because you have to have the flexibility to do that, and I know I'm very lucky that we have that flexibility.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#117
post #112
post #10

The paywalls on all major news sites are driving me crazy. Not because they cost money (I am willing to pay), but because it's not practical to buy an online subscription to 10+ major news sites individually. Is there a service that lets you pay 1 monthly fee for a subscription to the top 10 major (paywalled) news sites?

Paying for news only rewards paywalls.

What's wrong with that? They work hard to bring you that news. They should be paid.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#118
post #39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Not worth it. There are mountains of evidence demonstrating that people change their behaviors when they know they are being watched. Do we really care about the automatic resolution of petty squabbles between children, or even the coercion of children to never engage in petty squabbles? Do we really want to rob children of mischief, conflict resolution, and making a case for themselves in a way that cannot alw…

No one actually watches the video, unless something happens. And this is an elementary classroom- resolution of petty squabbles means 28 kids don't get to learn while 2 others yell 'he did it first'. They can be beasts to each other at recess.

> No one actually watches the video, unless something happens.

This is not reality. Even with access restrictions in place, people are going to weigh the pros and cons of watching the video to achieve their own ends.

Who might watch it? A supervisor or coworker with a vendetta. A student/teacher obsessed with a student/teacher. A pedophile. A teacher looking to silence a challenging (but not problematic) student. A racist looking to have a particular student removed. A student looking for embarrassing things about other students to post online. etc. etc.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#119
post #10

The paywalls on all major news sites are driving me crazy. Not because they cost money (I am willing to pay), but because it's not practical to buy an online subscription to 10+ major news sites individually. Is there a service that lets you pay 1 monthly fee for a subscription to the top 10 major (paywalled) news sites?

The way that Visa got started was that a bunch of big banks decided that it was ridiculous for their customers to get credit from all the banks, and so they agreed to federate on their own.

Maybe the news orgs need to do the same thing. Create a federated login system with a single payment and then divvy up the funds in some fair way.

Re: Welcome to the K-12 Surveillance State

#120
post #55
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Not worth it. There are mountains of evidence demonstrating that people change their behaviors when they know they are being watched. Do we really care about the automatic resolution of petty squabbles between children, or even the coercion of children to never engage in petty squabbles? Do we really want to rob children of mischief, conflict resolution, and making a case for themselves in a way that cannot alw…

> There are mountains of evidence demonstrating that people change their behaviors when they know they are being watched Then why do many students and young people post photo evidence of them engaging in illegal activity on social media? I don't think it would make much of a difference. Besides we're on camera in most places of commerce and in large cities, pretty much all the time. > Do we really want to rob childre…

> As for the teachers, for every great teacher having controversial and important discussions with their students, there are 9 that just roll in a TV to watch a movie about once a week.

The 10% are the ones that had the biggest impact on me as a student. They are also the ones most likely to be affected by the cameras. Hell, even in the 1990s, my European History teacher flat out said (paraphrasing), "I'd have to quit if they ever installed a camera in here. It wouldn't even work for measuring how I perform, because even if the students didn't know the cameras were in here, I would know. And it would affect how I teach things just as much as if the principal was sitting in the back row."

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