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I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

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Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#31

Post by dzhiurgis »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #13
pelario wrote: post #3

Very click-baity. Below the only part that actually relates to the title: The announcement came as we began to board. Last month, I was at Detroit’s Metro Airport for a connecting flight to Southeast Asia. I listened as a Delta Air Lines staff member informed passengers that the boarding process would use facial recognition instead of passport scanners. As a privacy-conscious person, I was uncomfortable boarding this…

Going against implicit expectations of others and being the only one who does something is maybe the hardest thing humans can do. Opting out could risk holding up the boarding process, possibly missing the flight, unpleasant treatment by security and being pitted against the other passengers - all of it to opt out of something is clearly a dark pattern. All of this is very well understood by the people who designed t…

> clearly a dark pattern.

It's not clear to me at all. Explain please.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#32

Post by chii »

kowdermeister wrote: post #22
aurbano wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. What is the privacy concern of allowing face recognition if you are letting them scan your passport?

Maybe you don't want new data points on your face in a database.

Not sure if this happens in smaller airports, but if the passport scanner is automated, they already take a picture of you.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#33

Post by dzhiurgis »

tastroder wrote: post #29
mytailorisrich wrote: post #16

I don't understand the problem here. How does the facial recognition system work? I'm thinking that biometric passports contain the necessary data and that the airline has already got then by scanning the passport at some point so that it quick and easy to use facial recognition at boarding time. If so, it's pointless to request to opt out while boarding, really. In any case, there is no anonymity in air travel (this…

So, what you're saying is... there's no problem because people have already given up anyway? At the very least opting out gives them a data point that their theatric procedures aren't readily accepted by everybody.

There's no 'given up'. There was no privacy to begin with. I don't see why crossing borders should be anonymous, as long as borders exist.

Internal flight could be anonymous, but when is the last time anyone paid for flights by cash?

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#34

Post by jen729w »

mb_72 wrote: post #30
hazz99 wrote: post #2

I've recently traveled outside Australia and used the facial recognition "smart" system. It was completely non-obvious that we could opt-out - it was only implied by the text. After going through security, I asked an official if I could've opted out. They said yes, and said I could flag someone down. When I returned, I tried to do so - but there was no-one around! Its an automated system, and almost impossible to opt…

What airport is this? At Adelaide airport arrivals I always choose to go through the manual processing queue, i.e. the one non-Australian citizens have to use. Half the time it's faster than the smart-gate system queue, and even if it's not an extra 10 minutes after 26hrs + of traveling isn't going to kill me. As for departures, it wasn't obvious to me - like with you - that I could opt-out. I'll give it a shot next…

I use the ‘smart’ gates at Melbourne regularly. You insert your passport, stand in front of a camera, and one assumes that your current photograph is compared to that of your passport. If they’re the same, you pass.

I fail to see the privacy implications. I’m already giving someone my passport details – I must do that to enter or exit the country. That passport already contains my photograph. What privacy am I losing by having my photograph taken at the airport?

I say this as a very privacy-conscious individual. I block ads, don’t use Facebook, etc. I fail to see the further loss of privacy in this case, over and above the mandatory scanning of my passport.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#35

Post by rkachowski »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #31
UweSchmidt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going against implicit expectations of others and being the only one who does something is maybe the hardest thing humans can do. Opting out could risk holding up the boarding process, possibly missing the flight, unpleasant treatment by security and being pitted against the other passengers - all of it to opt out of something is clearly a dark pattern. All of this is very well understood by the people who designed t…

> clearly a dark pattern. It's not clear to me at all. Explain please.

Assuming you're not being facetious, the optional "have your facial scan data uploaded to dubious parties" choice is not presented as optional, and implied consent is the default for all fliers.

This would be similar to an "opt-out" instead of "opt-in" checkbox on a "let us harvest your data" disclaimer, except that the checkbox is at 0% opacity so you don't know it's there.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#36

Post by resonanttoe »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #25
resonanttoe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point this article misses entirely is that the Facial recognition system is now at the gate which is ostensibly Delta’s territory. It isn’t US Boarder Control running the facial control system, its Delta, Southwest, or anyone else, which has implications about the privacy of the biometric data, that up until this point hasn’t been collected by Airlines, only Boarder entities. That said, in order to boot strap thi…

My understanding is that biometric data are contained in your passport, which is already scanned by airlines when you check in and/or board planes. Here they are using this information to automatically check that it is in fact you instead of having a staff member look at you and check against your passport's photo.

I’m not certain of the particular setup here (per airport thing) but I’ve never had them scan my passport at the gate in a US Airport, only at Immigration checkpoints for international travel and TSA.

This is especially true for domestic travel as well.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#37

Post by icebraining »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #25
resonanttoe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point this article misses entirely is that the Facial recognition system is now at the gate which is ostensibly Delta’s territory. It isn’t US Boarder Control running the facial control system, its Delta, Southwest, or anyone else, which has implications about the privacy of the biometric data, that up until this point hasn’t been collected by Airlines, only Boarder entities. That said, in order to boot strap thi…

My understanding is that biometric data are contained in your passport, which is already scanned by airlines when you check in and/or board planes. Here they are using this information to automatically check that it is in fact you instead of having a staff member look at you and check against your passport's photo.

Yeah, the chip includes a 12-30kB JPEG with the person's photo: https://readid.com/blog/face-images-in-ePassports

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#38

Post by icebraining »

resonanttoe wrote: post #36
mytailorisrich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that biometric data are contained in your passport, which is already scanned by airlines when you check in and/or board planes. Here they are using this information to automatically check that it is in fact you instead of having a staff member look at you and check against your passport's photo.

I’m not certain of the particular setup here (per airport thing) but I’ve never had them scan my passport at the gate in a US Airport, only at Immigration checkpoints for international travel and TSA. This is especially true for domestic travel as well.

But were you facially scanned?

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#39

Post by master-litty »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #31
UweSchmidt wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going against implicit expectations of others and being the only one who does something is maybe the hardest thing humans can do. Opting out could risk holding up the boarding process, possibly missing the flight, unpleasant treatment by security and being pitted against the other passengers - all of it to opt out of something is clearly a dark pattern. All of this is very well understood by the people who designed t…

> clearly a dark pattern. It's not clear to me at all. Explain please.

A "dark pattern" tricks people into doing something they normally wouldn't do. In this case, to board your flight you may verify your identity in one of two ways:

1. Present your passport

2. Use the Facial Recognition software

They are tricking people into using option 2 by not informing them of option 1.

Re: I Opted Out of Facial Recognition at the Airport – It Wasn't Easy

#40

Post by tty2300 »

jen729w wrote: post #34
mb_72 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What airport is this? At Adelaide airport arrivals I always choose to go through the manual processing queue, i.e. the one non-Australian citizens have to use. Half the time it's faster than the smart-gate system queue, and even if it's not an extra 10 minutes after 26hrs + of traveling isn't going to kill me. As for departures, it wasn't obvious to me - like with you - that I could opt-out. I'll give it a shot next…

I use the ‘smart’ gates at Melbourne regularly. You insert your passport, stand in front of a camera, and one assumes that your current photograph is compared to that of your passport. If they’re the same, you pass. I fail to see the privacy implications. I’m already giving someone my passport details – I must do that to enter or exit the country. That passport already contains my photograph. What privacy am I losing…

This may be true but the end game for governments is to have facial recognition everywhere. They start at the airport because "it doesn't matter, you are already giving your info out" and then we become OK with the idea so they start rolling it out for public transport and "it doesn't matter, you already do this every time you fly"

It seems to me that the only way to resist is to take a very hard rejection of facial recognition entirely in any situation.

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