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Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

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Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#241

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

Razengan wrote: post #200
grzm wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Can someone explain why a monolithic Registry is a good idea, compared to something like macOS's .plists?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry#Rationale The Registry has been around since Windows 3.1. While it's not required to use the Registry, I can imagine there's a large installed base of applications that do use it, and migrating off of something like this can take concerted effort if they decide i…

Windows used to have lots of .INI files, but almost all apps kept them all in C:\Windows or System or some such place. If only they had discovered the concept of subfolders, instead of shuttling them off into another monolithic container. I suspect having many subdirectories degraded filesystem performance at the time.

Or just stick them all in a global store specifically for config files, say somewhere like /etc?

This problem has been solved since the 1960s.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#242

Post by ecmascript »

docker_up wrote: post #6

I'm still on Windows 7 on a 2012 desktop. There's no reason for me to change. I've yet to run into any situation that has required me to upgrade. Since the world is generally web-first, the only thing that matters is Chrome and Firefox. Even running 4K video just required a codec upgrade as opposed to CPU upgrade. Yes there are security concerns but I'm pretty vigilant. I haven't run a virus scanner in 15 years, I'm…

> Yes there are security concerns but I'm pretty vigilant. I haven't run a virus scanner in 15 years, I'm just extremely paranoid over what I click on and which sites I visit.

Why not simply switch to Linux? That's what I did, that way you don't have to install Windows 10 and don't have to worry about visiting web pages.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#243

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

derefr wrote: post #65
Waterluvian wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like it was the intent. But I got into old menus simply by trying to change the clock time. Definitely not an IT professionals who don't care kind of action.

Sure it is. What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more? Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally. Seems like it'd screw up the GPS, if it was possible. Anyone whose first computer was a smartphone isn't going to think of changing their computer's clock time. To them, the time is a network feature, not a local feature.

> Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally.

You've never traveled to another time zone?

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#244

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

alister wrote: post #167
derefr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it is. What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more? Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally. Seems like it'd screw up the GPS, if it was possible. Anyone whose first computer was a smartphone isn't going to think of changing their computer's clock time. To them, the time is a network feature, not a local feature.

> What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more? Indeed. Even if you have the temerity to go and change the clock, the iPhone is secretly maintaining the true time internally and can use it or revert to it at will. I'm making a bold claim, so here are the steps to reproduce: - Go to Settings -> General -> Date & Time -> Set Automatically -> disable - set an incorrect time - Go to Settings -> {W…

Computers (including smartphones) have stored the time as an offset from UTC for how long? This behaviour isn't surprising at all.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#245

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

londons_explore wrote: post #74
antisthenes wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no, why is disabling backups in the name of saving 100MB of disk space ever OK? Did we go back to 1995 when disk space was expensive? I'd like to look the manager/developer who approved that change in the eye and ask them what the hell were they thinking. As far lying to the user goes...hasn't that been MS's motto for at least since W10 came out? That's the least surprising part. A poor technical decision is…

The registry is still backed up via system restore points and versioned file history. It is still possible (albeit hard) to restore the registry to any point in time via those. These backups were really a bad plan - they were making a copy of the registry, and then a system restore point or 3rd party full system backup would backup all the backups.

I can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this comment. Thankyou for talking sense.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#246

Post by andrewstuart »

mehrdadn wrote: post #175
andrewstuart wrote: post #116

The Registry is the biggest architectural mistake in Windows - it's a great pity they haven't had the courage to remove it entirely.

Never understood this comment. What's so wrong with the registry?

Have you ever had chewing gum stuck in your hair? Same thing.

The problem with the registry is that it's a complex mess that can't be pulled apart and it's not modular.

A clean operating system would separate applications cleanly from each other so they can be configured in an isolated manner, installed and uninstalled cleanly without leaving remnants of themselves in the operating system gumming up the works.

If you use Windows then you are probably used to Windows slowing down over time and you've probably just come to accept that you have to reinstall every so often because it has all become so slow. IMO that is at least partly, if not substantially attributable to the registry. By way of comparison, I'm still using the first build of Macintosh OS that I build 12 years ago and moved it from machine to machine. It does not slow over time.

Software should be loosely coupled - the registry tightly couples a whole stack of unrelated stuff together.

The Windows registry is a sticky mess of spaghetti mixed with chewing gum and glue and it can't be unwound.

Operating systems should be modular, able to be pulled apart and put together in a component like manner - the registry is the opposite concept, it's a central dumphouse that links and binds things and makes it hard to impossible to have a clean operating system.

Go have a look into your registry and tell me what's in there - does it make sense to you at any level at all? There you go - that's what's wrong with it.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#247

Post by mehrdadn »

andrewstuart wrote: post #246
mehrdadn wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never understood this comment. What's so wrong with the registry?

Have you ever had chewing gum stuck in your hair? Same thing. The problem with the registry is that it's a complex mess that can't be pulled apart and it's not modular. A clean operating system would separate applications cleanly from each other so they can be configured in an isolated manner, installed and uninstalled cleanly without leaving remnants of themselves in the operating system gumming up the works. If you…

> it's a complex mess > sticky mess of spaghetti mixed with chewing gum and glue and it can't be unwound.

This is not how you convince someone of a position. If I said your comment here was a spaghetti mixed with chewing gun would you find that informative, let alone compelling?

> If you use Windows then you are probably used to Windows slowing down over time

No, this is just your stereotype from over a decade ago.

> and you've probably just come to accept that you have to reinstall every so often

Again, false...

> IMO that is at least partly, if not substantially attributable to the registry.

All these problems just to blame the registry? With absolutely no substantiation for your claims?

As a Windows developer who's pretty familiar with its ins and outs (and who's run his fair share of registry defraggers/cleaners/etc. over a decade ago) and who actually pays attention to his OS performance I have never been able to measure a performance impact.

> A clean operating system would separate applications cleanly from each other so they can be configured in an isolated manner, installed and uninstalled cleanly without leaving remnants of themselves in the operating system gumming up the works.

I don't know what this means, but on any system programs will leave remnants on uninstall. Just diff your ~/ and /etc folders for a clean Linux system vs. one you've used for a while and then uninstalled packages from.

> Operating systems should be modular, able to be pulled apart and put together in a component like manner - the registry is the opposite concept, it's a central dumphouse that links and binds things and makes it hard to impossible to have a clean operating system.

"Gumming", "dumphouse", "sticky mess", "spaghetti"... these don't ground your position in anything, except maybe chewing gum.

> Go have a look into your registry and tell me what's in there - does it make sense to you at any level at all? There you go - that's what's wrong with it.

In fact yes it does, and in fact it shouldn't even have to make sense to a user, and only parts of it are relevant for developers, just like so many parts of any system.

In my experience people who describe the registry like this last used Windows as their primary system over a decade ago, read a lot of rants about it, switched to Linux, and just kept repeating myths ever since.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#248

Post by brynjolf »

robocat wrote: post #83
gemjam wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One super useful hidden feature but terrible ui is you can start typing as soon as Win 10 start menu is open... example 'notepad'... I used to install classic shell just to get the [run] input box

Except if you start typing just after booting, the search service (or something) isn't running yet and it doesn't give you any results even if you wait... I hate using Windows 10 because I am constantly hitting new unique bugs in the UI, and regularly enough I run into complete show-stoppers. Windows UI is just so broken. I do run into bugs on Ubuntu, but usually there is a workaround. And I have lower expectations w…

There is a bug where if you disable blinking textcursors, notifications in the taskbar never gets cleared. Been that way since Windows 7. How are those two things related?

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#249

Post by brynjolf »

jodrellblank wrote: post #143
Causality1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile Microsoft steals 7GB for "reserved storage" just in case they happen to have a giant update to install without your consent. "we disabled registry backups and made the dialog box lie to the user to save storage space" is a nauseatingly transparent lie.

If it’s that transparent, what’s the truth? Whats the REAL reason for this nauseating, unacceptable, decision?

I think bug that they are embarrassed about

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#250

Post by andrewstuart »

mehrdadn wrote: post #247
andrewstuart wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever had chewing gum stuck in your hair? Same thing. The problem with the registry is that it's a complex mess that can't be pulled apart and it's not modular. A clean operating system would separate applications cleanly from each other so they can be configured in an isolated manner, installed and uninstalled cleanly without leaving remnants of themselves in the operating system gumming up the works. If you…

> it's a complex mess > sticky mess of spaghetti mixed with chewing gum and glue and it can't be unwound. This is not how you convince someone of a position. If I said your comment here was a spaghetti mixed with chewing gun would you find that informative, let alone compelling? > If you use Windows then you are probably used to Windows slowing down over time No, this is just your stereotype from over a decade ago. >…

Let's be clear - you're saying there's nothing wrong with the registry, it's a great aspect of the architecture of Windows, and it doesn't result in applications being tightly bound, interconnected, difficult to uninstall and that bits and pieces are never left in the registry, that the registry does not contain orphaned configuration elements, it does not slow down Windows and in the past 10 years it has never needed "cleaning/defragging" as you call it? And you advocate for modern applications to use the registry for their configuration?
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