Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10 • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#61

Post by ushg » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

rando444 wrote: post #5

50-100MB seems like a miniscule amount of space to warrant something like this. My WinSxS folder alone is almost 10GB. If they wanted to save space, even a modest improvement in managing updates would yield space saving results orders of magnitude greater than this.

I wonder if it's related to the trend in recent years of manufacturers marketing ultra low-budget Windows 10 laptops (and to a lesser extent tablets) with critically small amounts of non-upgradeable storage? An install of Windows 10 typically takes up ~26GB and there's already a problem with consumers discovering that their 32GB soldered eMMC machines are unable to perform any OS updates without jumping through extra hoops with external storage [0].

[0] https://www.dell.com/support/article/ie/en/iedhs1/sln310147/...

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#62

Post by barrkel » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #37

I just booted up a windows 10 machine earlier today for the first time in many months. It absolutely bewilders me how terribad the UI is. You have this fancy UI but if you ever click one or two options deep you end up getting these alternately styled legacy interfaces. It's so incoherent. It really makes windows 10 feel like a skin on top of windows xp. So when the article says Microsoft wants to push users into wind…

The settings screens dating from the iconic control panel era can't easily be dumped because third party drivers add tabs and extend the dialogs. That's a big part of the problem.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#63

Post by philjohn » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

rando444 wrote: post #5

50-100MB seems like a miniscule amount of space to warrant something like this. My WinSxS folder alone is almost 10GB. If they wanted to save space, even a modest improvement in managing updates would yield space saving results orders of magnitude greater than this.

Marginal gains.

50MB here, 100MB there ... pretty soon you're talking real storage usage.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#64

Post by birdman3131 » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

wrs wrote: post #38

Waterluvian wrote: post #37

I just booted up a windows 10 machine earlier today for the first time in many months. It absolutely bewilders me how terribad the UI is. You have this fancy UI but if you ever click one or two options deep you end up getting these alternately styled legacy interfaces. It's so incoherent. It really makes windows 10 feel like a skin on top of windows xp. So when the article says Microsoft wants to push users into wind…

It’s a skin on a skin on a skin on a skin. Its always been this way. By clicking on “advanced” buttons you can easily end up with four different eras of UI on the screen, including different system fonts and different font rendering algorithms! I can tell you first-hand from trying to get some of that fixed years ago, there’s just so much STUFF in Windows that is hardly ever seen, or should only be seen by “IT profes…

I would not mind the newer interface if it did not screw with half the settings I need.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#65

Post by derefr » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #40

wrs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a skin on a skin on a skin on a skin. Its always been this way. By clicking on “advanced” buttons you can easily end up with four different eras of UI on the screen, including different system fonts and different font rendering algorithms! I can tell you first-hand from trying to get some of that fixed years ago, there’s just so much STUFF in Windows that is hardly ever seen, or should only be seen by “IT profes…

That sounds like it was the intent. But I got into old menus simply by trying to change the clock time. Definitely not an IT professionals who don't care kind of action.

Sure it is. What home user even realizes they can change the clock time any more?

Consider: can you change the clock time on your phone? I've never even considered doing so, personally. Seems like it'd screw up the GPS, if it was possible.

Anyone whose first computer was a smartphone isn't going to think of changing their computer's clock time. To them, the time is a network feature, not a local feature.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#66

Post by londons_explore » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

theandrewbailey wrote: post #18

close04 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between the traditional Disk Cleanup and a quick DISM cleanup (which should already be running as a scheduled task) you can get pretty good results on any Windows 8.1/2012R2 and above: Dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase

More info on what that does: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactur...

I don't really see the need to have the ability to uninstall service packs... Especially not if it's wasting 25% of the space on my tiny SSD!

The original windows installation media could be used to restore the system if something went horribly wrong anyway. Why the need to keep every previously used version of every dll?

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#67

Post by inlined » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

How the heck are you supposed to use the backup without the registry? You might as well just handpick which document folders you want to back up. Without the registry you can’t even load a DLL; interfaces are loaded via UUID which seeks to the registry to find the dll and its threading model.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#68

Post by inlined » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #19

Sujan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What crime in what country do you think this should fall under?

It's a very minor fraud, if a product you purchase says it will do backups, but doesn't do them, then you were defrauded. I think you could sue for actual damages if you had them and be successful if it's in the documentation anywhere, or the system actively informed you that a backup was made. I'm in the UK, fwiw; I'd expect most English law systems to be broadly similar but IANAL.

Also the Windows EULA traditionally limits damages to the cost you paid for Windows.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#69

Post by gdulli » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

godson_drafty wrote: post #12

Omitting automatic registry backups is a defensible policy. Telling the user that a backup was completed while a 0 byte file was saved is lying. Seems like a criminal act under the circumstances.

What are you talking about? I don't think this was ever even an announced feature. It's redundant with another type of backup which is the one they've been publicly promoting for a long time. (Restore points.) They finally got around to eliminating the unnecessary one. I don't remember there ever being a UI around this or a publicized best practice about using it.

I don't think it qualifies as "telling the user" if it involves the user poking around undocumented system tasks.

Re: Microsoft explains the lack of Registry backups in Windows 10

#70

Post by inlined » Mon, Jul 01, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

rolph wrote: post #45

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very minor fraud, if a product you purchase says it will do backups, but doesn't do them, then you were defrauded. I think you could sue for actual damages if you had them and be successful if it's in the documentation anywhere, or the system actively informed you that a backup was made. I'm in the UK, fwiw; I'd expect most English law systems to be broadly similar but IANAL.

if i spent all day tweaking peoples registries, only to find that they are not backed up to be restored when you desire a sane configuration uuum, "pissed off" would not even begin to approach describing the emotional carnage evoked. I get the hunch MS is set on controlling the users configuration at all times. On the flipside i remember the hell of restore point trojans, and perhaps this is MS best go at mitigating…

Hell, registry tweaking can be so dangerous that Windows keeps a copy of important keys for the last known good boot. That’s what “safe mode” is: it uses that key instead of the current one.