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Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

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Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#161
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever actually done that - managed a large fleet of desktops and a productivity suite, all on Linux with no active directory? Complete with whatever the Kerberos equivalent of a backup DC is?

I would imagine that Google has and is doing that, as is AWS.

You'd be surprised how big of a Microsoft shop Amazon is. It's pretty representative of a large company actually.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#162

Every few months we get another post like this, with a slightly different measure. Yes, lots of Azure workloads run Linux, and Microsoft makes it a priority. It's not news anymore. At the same time, Azure itself runs largely on Windows servers in Service Fabric ( https://github.com/Microsoft/service-fabric ), so it's hard to count. With nested hypervisors as the normal architecture nowadays, this whole tally is prett…

You are trying to defend Microsoft from these stories. But "Microsoft eats humble pie on OSS" is exactly the narrative they want out there. It gives them the cover they want to embrace extend extinguish Linux and other major open source projects.

> It gives them the cover they want to embrace extend extinguish Linux and other major open source projects.

Were you alive when Microsoft reigned as the dark lord? The contrast between life then and now is so dramatic. They simply lack the power they once wielded over the world of computers and the internet - to everyone’s great benefit, including theirs.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#163
post #95

I am on one hand glad that Linux is being adopted, but I am mostly sad. We only have two operating systems now Windows and Linux. (MacOS for the desktop as well). It becomes a mono culture, and it takes away healthy competition and innovation. I want many more operating systems, not fewer. I with MS would make it free to run Windows Server, (something they move towards with the CLI only version). In order to hopefull…

I want more "kinds" of operating systems. It is ripe time to look forward to building ones not based on Unix, files, forks and execs. I want to explore different ideas which were not tested because Unix model became popular. There is a lot to explore on the side of Smalltalk machines, Oberon, Lisp Machines of old. As a developer, live programming language based environments is my kind of thing.

You forgot to mention TempleOS :) Made from scratch (incl language & compiler), main interface is a shell in the same language the OS is written, designed for recreational programming...

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#164

Every few months we get another post like this, with a slightly different measure. Yes, lots of Azure workloads run Linux, and Microsoft makes it a priority. It's not news anymore. At the same time, Azure itself runs largely on Windows servers in Service Fabric ( https://github.com/Microsoft/service-fabric ), so it's hard to count. With nested hypervisors as the normal architecture nowadays, this whole tally is prett…

I've been a dev for 20+ years now. I don't care about the OSS vs Proprietary argument at all. I care about my productivity and job satisfaction. Microsoft - in every sphere from IDEs to cloud platforms and now machine learning - has done more to make this stuff easier to learn, use and afford than any other organization.

I would give that title to SUN. Without them, there would be no Java, and thus no Eclipse, and thus no incentive to advance the IDEs to the point they are today.

That productivity and job satisfaction, you have it despite Microsoft. Imagine a world where MS wouldn't have spent their resources on killing Webbrowsers and Java, where you could run a jar file on any operating system with ease. Or imagine a world where exchanging office files between different programs would have been easy.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a roundabout way of saying: "I know more about Linux's internals than Windows'." Essentially you're a power user of Linux and a consumer of Windows. I'm not sure that's Windows' fault.

Yeah, I mean why doesn't everybody dig through the kernel sources on Windows when they encounter a bug like that? The vast majority of Linux users will never poke around the source to the Kernel ferreting out a bug, but they do have the option. On Windows it's much harder to get access without being a Microsoft employee.

It does not end with the kernel. Of course it is possible to run proprietary software on Linux and OSS software on Windows, but I have rarely had to deal with proprietary software in Linux. That is only in small part because I avoid it.

I'm not a kernel hacker. But I have on occasion cracked open the source for some product on which I relied to find out why it was behaving contrary to my expections. Much more I have done that with a library upon which I was relying.

Many many times more often I have sought answers from authors or experts of a lib, etc. to clarify what I didn't understand from documentation.

All of this is easier and frendlier with open systems. MS is coloring itself more open recently, but they and the ecosystem built upon them and around them have a long way to catch up. From my perspective the gap is so large and so pervasive that I don't even bother kicking the tires any more. I don't know if MS will make it there in my productive lifetime. If they do, I think the ground will have to have shaken dramatically so many times that it will get my attention. So, I will continue to ignore them until then.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#166
post #5

This is great, IMO. The sooner MS abandons Windows on Azure the better for everybody. You could argue that "monoculture" is not good, but, TBH, from a purely pragmatic standpoint, I struggle to name a single use case where I'd _not_ choose Linux over anything else when the use case is not desktop-oriented (cloud, edge, embedded).

seems to me that windows is still where you are going to find better (or even a driver) drivers for hardware. is this still true? if new cutting edge hardware released does it now have good linux drivers? (sorry i was scarred by the printing experience on linux)

Driver support is mostly a non-factor for cloud installs though. You can carefully chose what hardware you use, unlike the desktop, where the end-user can plug in any number of peripherals.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenLDAP, Postfix/Dovecot?

Not a fully integrated email and calendaring solution that can be set up and administrated by typical overworked corporate IT staff. Completely unacceptable.

Then what about iRedMail? Isn't that sort of an all-in-one wrapper around Postfix/Dovecot and some other stuff?

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#168
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which orchestrator are you referring to? System Center in no way competes with kubernetes since it's lacking 90% of the features. Maybe I'm bad at googling, but I can't find what you're referring to. Edit: I see the one you're referring to in that link, but again, it's not at all a comparison with kubernetes. It's easy at face value to say this one is better, but it's missing the point of kubernetes, which is extensi…

>following standards What standards?

CNI, CSI, OCI

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which orchestrator are you referring to? System Center in no way competes with kubernetes since it's lacking 90% of the features. Maybe I'm bad at googling, but I can't find what you're referring to. Edit: I see the one you're referring to in that link, but again, it's not at all a comparison with kubernetes. It's easy at face value to say this one is better, but it's missing the point of kubernetes, which is extensi…

If you Google it you'll find several comparisons to k8s and others. I looked into this a while back, and Service Fabric was a clear winner over k8s, and resource use was a fraction of k8s too. But, I felt it needed to gain community traction before I could commit to using it - knowing my luck, I'd build something and Microsoft would abandon it because k8s... Kind of a chicken and egg problem, which is a shame really.

No, it was a clear winner for your use case. It's missing a significant amount of features from k8s, though, and if you don't need those, then great. But don't pretend they're comparable.

I think it's more fair to say the suit different use cases (an MS person on HN explicitly said this last year), rather than competing.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a dev for 20+ years now. I don't care about the OSS vs Proprietary argument at all. I care about my productivity and job satisfaction. Microsoft - in every sphere from IDEs to cloud platforms and now machine learning - has done more to make this stuff easier to learn, use and afford than any other organization.

I would give that title to SUN. Without them, there would be no Java, and thus no Eclipse, and thus no incentive to advance the IDEs to the point they are today. That productivity and job satisfaction, you have it despite Microsoft. Imagine a world where MS wouldn't have spent their resources on killing Webbrowsers and Java, where you could run a jar file on any operating system with ease. Or imagine a world where ex…

> Without them, there would be no Java, and thus no Eclipse, and thus no incentive to advance the IDEs to the point they are today.

I don't buy this argument. IDEs would just advance as they're tools written buy the people who use them - there's an inherent drive to increase their usefulness and automate the mundane and repetitive. Also for what It's worth I think before MS really got their shit together in the IDE space it was Borland that was at the forefront.

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