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Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

zdnet.com

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Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#121

Post by pjc50 »

z3phyr wrote: post #95
ThinkBeat wrote: post #90

I am on one hand glad that Linux is being adopted, but I am mostly sad. We only have two operating systems now Windows and Linux. (MacOS for the desktop as well). It becomes a mono culture, and it takes away healthy competition and innovation. I want many more operating systems, not fewer. I with MS would make it free to run Windows Server, (something they move towards with the CLI only version). In order to hopefull…

I want more "kinds" of operating systems. It is ripe time to look forward to building ones not based on Unix, files, forks and execs. I want to explore different ideas which were not tested because Unix model became popular. There is a lot to explore on the side of Smalltalk machines, Oberon, Lisp Machines of old. As a developer, live programming language based environments is my kind of thing.

Sure, but an OS that can't run a browser (i.e. it's difficult to port to) is going to have a massive adoption hurdle.

I was a big fan of the QNX demo floppy (1.44MB OS with browser), but that didn't lead to me using it on the desktop. http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#122

Post by grosswait »

copperx wrote: post #119
skocznymroczny wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make sure to set SSH to log in directory to vim. Unlike Real Linux admins know how to quit vim so it will be no issue for them.

Wouldn't their login session end after quitting vim?

Yes, but you can get to a shell without quitting vim. :sh

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#123

Post by pjc50 »

z3phyr wrote: post #101
acd wrote: post #63

Prediction for the future: Microsoft will open source Windows but sell commercial support packages for it. Windows server will be offered as a compatibility layer in Linux on top of Docker.

On one end, I really like the open source movement; Having said that, I can't do anything but blame it for the slow pace of computer systems research. My reasoning is that the OS does not sell anymore (partly due to FOSS movement) and thus research computing environments hardly come out of the labs for use in production. We are forever stuck with Unix's interpretation of what an OS could be, and there is very little…

This is not a new phenomenon, though; I was considering an OS research PhD all the way back in 2000, in the research group that brought out Nemesis ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_(operating_system) ) - but even back then I could see that the compatibility issue was a colossal barrier. Back then we thought Windows had won the desktop and the UNIX-like OSs would remain in a niche.

The only thing that disrupted that was mobile. First Symbian, then iOS and Android. Sufficiently different use case that backwards compatibility was rendered irrelevant.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#124

Post by shaklee3 »

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #96

Every few months we get another post like this, with a slightly different measure. Yes, lots of Azure workloads run Linux, and Microsoft makes it a priority. It's not news anymore. At the same time, Azure itself runs largely on Windows servers in Service Fabric ( https://github.com/Microsoft/service-fabric ), so it's hard to count. With nested hypervisors as the normal architecture nowadays, this whole tally is prett…

Which orchestrator are you referring to? System Center in no way competes with kubernetes since it's lacking 90% of the features. Maybe I'm bad at googling, but I can't find what you're referring to.

Edit: I see the one you're referring to in that link, but again, it's not at all a comparison with kubernetes. It's easy at face value to say this one is better, but it's missing the point of kubernetes, which is extensibility, following standards, etc.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#125

Post by pjc50 »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #116
quasi wrote: post #87

Microsoft should do an Apple and build the Windows 13 on GNU/Linux.

Windows’ driver ecosystem is important to Windows’ market success - switching out the kernel (and so, the driver interfaces) would throw that all away.

.. unless they build an adapter.

If this sounds horrifying, consider that Windows already has a subsystem for allowing graphics drivers to crash and restart seperately. The reverse also exists: https://wiki.debian.org/NdisWrapper

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#126

Post by ratiolat »

issati wrote: post #114
ratiolat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with AD is that it is for windows only. It does not fly for managing Mac and Linux desktops. So that gives us salt for example, which has clients for all three. The second problem with ad is that if you need to manage any complex settings, you'll need to write your own templates. The included group policies are only for basic level os management + some for basic level Microsoft office managment stuff. Any…

AD isn't just for Windows, which would be weird since it is mostly a fancy key value store (with associated functions and services of course). SSSD for example can use AD. The problem is that Linux itself doesn't support the same functionality client side, which using a configuration manager doesn't really solve. And question wasn't if you have used AD, but if you have managed Linux desktop deployments without it. Si…

I'm in the process of bulding a solution for managing all three OS'es. AD is not on the table because theres nothing to do with kerberos in our network and AD would be a "windows only" solution.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#127

Post by ohthehugemanate »

lugg wrote: post #111
ohthehugemanate wrote: post #96

Every few months we get another post like this, with a slightly different measure. Yes, lots of Azure workloads run Linux, and Microsoft makes it a priority. It's not news anymore. At the same time, Azure itself runs largely on Windows servers in Service Fabric ( https://github.com/Microsoft/service-fabric ), so it's hard to count. With nested hypervisors as the normal architecture nowadays, this whole tally is prett…

> Did you know that Microsoft built and open sourced an orchestrator that can manage tens if millions of nodes with totally diverse workloads (containers, VMs, and bare metal), nested hypervisors, and even nested orchestrators in a secure multi tenant context? No, and I don't really care. Is there something wrong with that? Am I limiting myself by ruling them out from the get go based on past behaviour? After a decad…

> Am I limiting myself by ruling them out from the get go based on past behaviour?

Yes, by definition. You have every right to, of course! But yeah you're limiting yourself.

> what would it take for me to catch up in order to even begin to unpack and then finally even begin to leverage what you just mentioned?

What did it take for you to unpack/leverage k8s? Similar. SF runs on Linux, and is an orchestrator for fundamental components that you're used to: VMs, containers, and bare metal instances. There's nothing Windows-specific there. Particularly if you deal with a mix of stateless and stateful applications, or if multi-tenancy is an issue for you, SF has valuable strengths.

> not a single employer that matters to me thinks your knowledge of windows crapware is a competitive advantage in the environments most real tech operates in.

Hm, the only windows specific component I mentioned is Hyper-V. Other services tend to be solid implementations of open source projects you probably tolerate, like kubernetes or tensorflow. You know, places where MS is a major contributor. I was talking about our blindness to MS contributions across the spectrum - which you seem to exemplify pretty neatly.

You can limit yourself however you want. Be careful with your blanket statements though; you just excluded a lot of companies from your list of "companies you care about" and "real tech." Airbus, Atlassian, Bitnami, Cisco, Dell, Docker, Facebook, Fujitsu, GE, Hashicorp, Intel, Kaltura, Lockheed, MongoDB, New Relic, Oracle, Nokia, Raytheon, Red Hat, Roku, Salesforce, Samsung, SAP, Siemens, Sony, SUSE, Symantec, Tableau, Trend Micro, and others all work closely with Azure and Microsoft tech... maybe those companies don't count as "real tech" to you. Either that, or you should consider re-evaluating your limitations.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#128

Post by cmiles74 »

pjc50 wrote: post #121
z3phyr wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want more "kinds" of operating systems. It is ripe time to look forward to building ones not based on Unix, files, forks and execs. I want to explore different ideas which were not tested because Unix model became popular. There is a lot to explore on the side of Smalltalk machines, Oberon, Lisp Machines of old. As a developer, live programming language based environments is my kind of thing.

Sure, but an OS that can't run a browser (i.e. it's difficult to port to) is going to have a massive adoption hurdle. I was a big fan of the QNX demo floppy (1.44MB OS with browser ), but that didn't lead to me using it on the desktop. http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html

It's too bad that web browsers are so complicated and expensive to port.

There might be room for something new and different that runs on it's own VM (like Smalltalk) and can use libraries on the host to get things that do not make sense re-implementing, like a web browser. If it gains sufficient traction, the work to move it to a more stripped down environment would be clearly worth it.

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#129

Post by sciurus »

shaklee3 wrote: post #124
ohthehugemanate wrote: post #96

Every few months we get another post like this, with a slightly different measure. Yes, lots of Azure workloads run Linux, and Microsoft makes it a priority. It's not news anymore. At the same time, Azure itself runs largely on Windows servers in Service Fabric ( https://github.com/Microsoft/service-fabric ), so it's hard to count. With nested hypervisors as the normal architecture nowadays, this whole tally is prett…

Which orchestrator are you referring to? System Center in no way competes with kubernetes since it's lacking 90% of the features. Maybe I'm bad at googling, but I can't find what you're referring to. Edit: I see the one you're referring to in that link, but again, it's not at all a comparison with kubernetes. It's easy at face value to say this one is better, but it's missing the point of kubernetes, which is extensi…

They linked it. Service Fabric.

> Service Fabric is a distributed systems platform for packaging, deploying, and managing stateless and stateful distributed applications and containers at large scale.

https://github.com/Microsoft/service-fabric

Re: Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

#130

Post by gmueckl »

ratiolat wrote: post #126
issati wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AD isn't just for Windows, which would be weird since it is mostly a fancy key value store (with associated functions and services of course). SSSD for example can use AD. The problem is that Linux itself doesn't support the same functionality client side, which using a configuration manager doesn't really solve. And question wasn't if you have used AD, but if you have managed Linux desktop deployments without it. Si…

I'm in the process of bulding a solution for managing all three OS'es. AD is not on the table because theres nothing to do with kerberos in our network and AD would be a "windows only" solution.

Linux can totally run in a AD domain with auth managed by AD. Client side SMB is also not bad. But you are excluding Kerberos for some unrelated reason, right?
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