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Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

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Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#121
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing complaints in the US that EU regulations strangle companies, but as a consumer I’m wildly envious. When I vaped, I tried to get a new disposable part in the EU. I had to upgrade my whole mod because the parts on the market in the US were illegal in the EU because they leaked. The US is sold products that force you to buy more “juice” and make messes. And in the EU, the juice flavors must each pass test…

> I keep hearing complaints in the US that EU regulations strangle companies, but as a consumer I’m wildly envious. It's all a matter of what the regulations actually are. Most of them get sold as "consumer protection" but in practice are written by the industries the consumers are supposedly being protected from, in order to create barriers to entry and destroy competition. > The US is sold products that force you t…

> in practice are written by the industries the consumers are supposedly being protected from, in order to create barriers to entry and destroy competition.

Requiring 3rd party certification that your food/vape juice/whatever won't harm me should definitely be a barrier to entry. If that means there's less competition and higher prices, so be it. Consumer safety should come before the need for more competition and lower prices.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#122
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Could a bookseller add a license to a physical book, and suddenly you can't sell it or lend it out? " Probably. I mean, they're already selling physical items laden with DRM (DVD/bluray), presumably in those cases they are selling you "a license to watch the disk." The ability to restrict first sale of DRM'd movies is probably on their TODO list I'd wager, or their list of greatest regrets. Incidentally, years ago…

The actual answer appears to be that you can sell add-on digital content which is licensed only for sale with the physical item, and that’s OK. But you cannot add license terms to the physical book itself, the book can be resold freely. That’s recently been affirmed by the Supreme Court.

Hypothetically if they had the technology to create a paperback book that self-destructs when anybody but you opens it, would that business model be illegal? As far as I know, SCOTUS said companies can't use the legal system to prevent resale of their books. But did they say that technical solutions are also banned?

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#123
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The button says buy and purchase. Not rent or lease. If it was honest and said that I suspect fewer people would buy them. Sorry, license them.

but you are buying. a license.

The argument is that if you are buying a licence, the retailer is obligated to tell you you're buying a licence. Current advertising, shopping, and checkout flows instead communicate that you are buying an eBook.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#124
Publishers need to ensure that selling a copy of a book to someone does not mean that 10,000 copies are downloaded for free because that book was uploaded to a free download site. That can't happen with physical books in the same way — yes, you can scan pages and upload a PDF of the page images, but it's often a much poorer reading experience (although there was a story here just last week about bad actors selling photocopy duplicates on Amazon).

This is a hard problem for publishers. Some publishers have decided to sell ebooks without DRM — though the biggest example of this that I always pointed to for years and years, O'Reilly, stopped selling ebooks directly in 2017.[1] (It appears from that article that DRM/piracy concerns were not primary for O'Reilly, but the unprofitability of their ebook store and the rising profitability of their subscription business.)

[1] https://www.thebookseller.com/futurebook/why-oreilly-media-n...

Most publishers don't believe that it is in their best interest to sell DRM-free ebooks. (This includes all the publishers I have done business with, which is a fairly representative sample). It's not that they're trying to get rich, it's that they're trying to stay alive. Ebook sales have been declining or at best have stabilized. Physical bookstores are declining. Publishers have a fear-hate-dependency relationship with Amazon, so they would like to sell ebooks directly, but very few have achieved any profitability there, and they don't believe that selling digital files without some form of digital copy protection is going to lead to more sales.

I have not been arguing here for DRM, I am simply telling you the reality of the publishing business and how it is grappling with a very different distribution environment than what we had 20+ years ago before there was such a thing as ebooks.[2]

[2] I built my first commercially distributed ebooks in 2000 for the (old) Microsoft Reader, Palm, and Rocket Ebook platforms. I've been in the publishing industry since 1997.

Now I will argue for DRM — or at least, for finding a solution that works for everyone.

I would like to think that DRM-free ebook distribution would work for publishers, and I used to try to convince them that they should move in that direction, but two things dampened my idealism: (1) my aforementioned experience talking with western publishers about DRM-free distribution. (2) I started talking with publishers in developing-world cultures. Many of these publishers (especially in post-colonial contexts, where books were traditionally donated by ministries and thus were free) have a very hard time making ends meet, and they cannot envision getting their customers to pay for digital files that don't have some kind of protection. There is too much precedent in those places for both books and digital files to be free.

In short, very few publishers are going to embrace a solution that fails to protect their content. If you buy a copy, they need to be able to ensure that it remains a single copy.

But at the same time, few publishers think, "I love having my customers locked into Amazon's platform. It's so good for my business that Amazon owns my customers."

What we need is a system in which:

* publishers and distributors can sell ebooks to customers and ensure that those ebooks are protected as single copies

* customers can buy ebooks and ensure that they will always have access to those ebooks, on any platform that they own, no matter whose DRM servers go down (because no single entity owns the DRM / licensing platform)

* customers can loan / given their ebooks to others, either permanently or for a limited period of time

* bonus: publishers (and therefore authors!) get a royalty on the resale

* important: buyers' full purchase history is knowable only by the buyers themselves

I believe the technical infrastructure to make this sort of system possible are just now being put into place. And I believe that someone will succeed in designing, building, and selling it to the publishing industry in the next few years.

And yes, I'm looking forward to it: I would like to see the publishing industry much less dependent of a single all-powerful distributor, and more able to sell directly to their customers without intermediaries and without fear. And as a reader, I would like to be able to buy digital books (and movies, for that matter) and know that I will always have access to those copies, no matter what, without being dependent on a single distributor. Or resell them if I so choose.

[edited to reformat because hacker news doesn't speak Markdown]

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any recommendations for such stores? I know of https://www.downpour.com for audio books and I get all my audio books from them since they are DRM-free. Would love to know of such a service for ebooks, but for fiction.

It's not the same as buying DRM free, but stripping DRM from most eBook formats is pretty trivial these days, afaik. Unless something has changed in the last few years since I last bought a kindle edition of a book (which I stripped of DRM so something like this couldn't happen).

Keep in mind that by buying DRMed books you give companies an incentive to produce them. If you're opposed to DRM, it may be better to pirate instead. Especially if you live in a jurisdiction in which removing DRM is illegal so you're breaking the law anyway.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#126
post #89
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least this time it's Microsoft closing down gracefully. I can't see the same happening if it's a smaller, specialized business going bankrupt and going away without the ability to mitigate the shutdown.

In a perfect world they would have put their keys + unlock tools in escrow with a service that would publish them at the first sign of a major outage.

In a perfect world there would be no DRM in the first place.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#127
There is a non-dark side to DRM? Seriously, it just makes everything worse out of a misguided sense of greed and scarcity while not stopping piracy.

The whole concept of DRM is certifiable. Asking to have something accessible yet not accessible to the end client at the exact same time.

When it can be bypassed by capturing the output channel anyway on top of that.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most DRM is trivially easy to fool: Just pirate. When you circumvent DRM, you are pirating, except you paid for the privilege. You probably also have a bigger risk of being caught, as you still run the DRM software.

well, you're still supporting the people behind the works, which - believe it or not - i like to do. and also, while the iso/tv/movie scene has strict quality rules, the ebook "scene" seems more ad-hoc. pirated ebooks are sometimes OCR scans with tonnes of spelling mistakes or weird formatting, or ancient editions. in short, de-DRM can still be preferable.

If you want to support the people behind the works, send them money. That way you also bypass any middlemen you don't care about.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#129
post #7

This isn’t the first time for MS, and certainly not the first time the dark side of DRM has shown itself. MSN music: https://www.cnet.com/news/defunct-msn-music-has-a-drm-contro... Zune’s servers shut down in 2017, but at least you could download free MP3 versions of everything. https://www.thurrott.com/music-videos/groove-music/82201/buy...

Seems like that they in a typical Microsoft style tried to link one product to another. I can imagine that the boss of the Edge browser argued to make their bookstore Edge-only, to promote the browser that way. And that move effectively doomed the bookstore.

Its like you go to Microsoft site to search for a registry problem, and the support person tells you to use Cortana to search. Because obviously his job is not to solve your registry problem, it is to promote Cortana for Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft's eBook Apocalypse Shows the Dark Side of DRM

#130
“Originally intended as an anti-piracy measure, DRM now functions mostly as a way to lock customers into a given ecosystem, rather than reading or viewing or listening to their purchases wherever they want. It’s a cycle that has persisted for decades, and shows no signs of abating.”

This is precisely why I use Calibre with KyBook 3. You can import ePub and pdf formats and no DRM of course.

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