I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids • Hacker News Board

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#221

Post by untog » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #213

untog wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

> That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence Statistically, this is not true. In relationships where there is one-sided violence, the violence is (something like) 70/30 with the woman initiating the violence. In relationships where there is two-sided violence, the woman initiates the violence more th…

> The authors say they have no intention of minimizing the very real problem of serious domestic violence — the classic male batterer. The survey did not cover the use of knives, guns, choking, or burning, and it was not concerned with the kind of situation that can drive a woman to seek shelter outside the home. The view of the authors is that most intimate partner violence should not be equated with severe battering. Domestic disputes that turn physical because of retaliation and escalation do not have the same causes or the same consequences as male battering. Couples counseling is generally regarded as ineffective for batterers, but if the violence is moderate and the injuries are minor, both partners are involved, and they want to stay together, it makes sense for a therapist to work with both of them.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/In_Brief_D...

The article's own summary suggests against making the kind of conclusions the article you linked to makes.

> If you are speaking historically, surely you are not suggesting incarceration of men as reparations for things we didn't do?

Not even slightly and it's an absurd reading of my post to suggest that I am.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#222

Post by alanbernstein » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

drtillberg wrote: post #158

> I had picked the [trial] date, not the judge, [to coincide with my kid's seventh birthday] because I knew that the other side wasn’t ready. Delaying even a few days would have meant losing a crucial advantage. I wasn’t going to risk it knowing what was on the line for my client. I would just like to say that picking the most inconvenient time for all counsel involved is one of those tactics you see in the practice…

She doesn't mention the subject of that particular trial, but the previous example makes the stakes of her work clear: overturning wrongful murder convictions to get innocent people out of jail. Missing a birthday seems a worthy tradeoff.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#223

Post by lonelappde » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #213

untog wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

> That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence Statistically, this is not true. In relationships where there is one-sided violence, the violence is (something like) 70/30 with the woman initiating the violence. In relationships where there is two-sided violence, the woman initiates the violence more th…

That article says that women strike more often, while men do more damage with their strikes. I know which I'd prefer, given the choice between being hit more often or more severely.

Men murder intimate partner women at 4x the rate of women murdering men intimate partners, per https://www.ozy.com/acumen/us-domestic-violence-murder-rate-...

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#224

Post by lonelappde » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

jon-wood wrote: post #153

yomly wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. I've never understood this viewpoint - children are simply the most fascinating things! They're born with next to no inborn knowledge and yet have the potential to learn about quantum mechanics. Someone with the same potential would only have learned about fire some hundred thousands of years ago. In the early days you get to se…

On the scale of months and years children are amazing, and I agree it’s fascinating to watch as they develop into their own people. However, on the scale of hours and days they can be mind-numbingly boring, as anyone who’s played hide and seek with a four year old who repeatedly goes and hides in their bedroom cupboard can probably attest. I love my boy dearly, but I am so, so, bored of playing the first hour of Mine…

You gotta teach your kid to l2p and get gud at hiding.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#225

Post by lonelappde » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

a-saleh wrote: post #212

yomly wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. I've never understood this viewpoint - children are simply the most fascinating things! They're born with next to no inborn knowledge and yet have the potential to learn about quantum mechanics. Someone with the same potential would only have learned about fire some hundred thousands of years ago. In the early days you get to se…

That happens like 10% of the time if you are lucky. Rest of it can be kinda monotonous? Like, getting my daughter from bed through breakfast, dressing up, and walking to kindergarten. Or getting her to walk all the way to her friends house for a play date. Or getting her dinner, showered, and to bed ... I still like it, but the day to day is stressful and monotonous

A paying job is usually stressful and mnotonotous and the main upside is the salary.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#226

Post by hyperpape » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #213

untog wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

> That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence Statistically, this is not true. In relationships where there is one-sided violence, the violence is (something like) 70/30 with the woman initiating the violence. In relationships where there is two-sided violence, the woman initiates the violence more th…

It doesn't seem impossible that women are just as likely to shove or slap a man they're in a partnership with, though I'd like to see more followup than this article to be convinced.

However, the statistics on murder are pretty fucking clear: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides.... Given the frequency with which murder is preceded by a string of violence requiring medical attention, I'd wager that's similarly unbalanced.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#227

Post by notacoward » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

I feel like the author is using one part of her story to excuse other unrelated decisions. Sure, defending a man she believes was improperly convicted and a victim of racism is important. Very important. It seems perfectly reasonable to weigh that responsibility against that she owes to her kids (though I might still make the opposite choice myself). But another student to teach? Another story to write? Nope. Other people can do one, and the other might not need to be done at all. The incremental benefit to anyone but the author herself is minimal, compared to the major incremental benefit of being there for her children. Which brings us to this.

> If I didn’t write and teach and litigate, a part of me would feel empty.

This sounds like the real reason, and it's not a bad one. Self-care is important. It's hard to be a good parent (or spouse BTW) if you're not a healthy person. But that's a different argument from the one about all of one's work being important to others. Some seems to be, and some less so. When a facile reason is given, even if good reasons also exist, it seems like unhealthy rationalization. But then, picking and promoting a most favorable narrative is exactly what trial lawyers do. I guess it's an easy trap to fall into. I just hope she's right that the choice to favor her career really will prove most fulfilling in the longer term.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#228

Post by lonelappde » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #64

jedberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the immigrant parents that own a Chinese restaurant open seven days a week make it to any of their kids school functions or camping trips? Are they being irreparably damaged? Based on my experience going to college with a few kids like that, yes. They all resented their childhood and the fact that the only way to see their parents was to work in the restaurant.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

Your argument is getting perilously close to "good things aren't good because some people survive without them."

China is eating our lunch? Excuse me?

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#229

Post by lonelappde » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

taesko wrote: post #149

barry-cotter wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in China for seven years I see no sign that the Chinese have eaten, are eating, or are going to eat America’s lunch. Growth at the technological frontier is about what the best are doing and diffuses from there. I am unaware of any academic field or major industry where the US is not in the top three, hardly surprising given its 5% of global population and 25% of global economic activity. As long as the…

> As long as the US has enough strivers and hard workers it can afford plenty of slackers. That's an uncomfortable idea - growth of a nation being dependent on a few people working their ass off. Like sacrificial lambs. Though almost all of these people probably do it willingly.

That's life. Life is incredibly expensive, and people who enjoy it are getting from the hard work and suffering of animals and other people and themselves. And the suffering of others scales far better then self-sacrificing.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#230

Post by chachachoney » Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #213

untog wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's nothing wrong with Men's Rights as a cause, but if you look at, for example, /r/mensrights on Reddit an absolutely toxic hatred of women pervades the place. It's not healthy. But yes, suicide, custody in divorce etc are issues where men deserve recourse. That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in…

> That said, historically women have been on the receiving end of physical violence from men far, far more often than vice versa and were told to suffer in silence Statistically, this is not true. In relationships where there is one-sided violence, the violence is (something like) 70/30 with the woman initiating the violence. In relationships where there is two-sided violence, the woman initiates the violence more th…

You're offering up a tabloid source which is ultimately referencing a survey of 11,000 people.

>> These studies are hard to find because they get shouted out of the mainstream consciousness.

Abstracts for studies are pretty easy to find on the internet (even the one you mention that is "hard to find").

Are you saying that there are legitimate academic studies which have been deleted? Serious assertions require serious evidence. Do have any beyond a screen shot of a study taken out of context inside a PDF written by a defunct tabloid?