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Microsoft's Linux Kernel

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Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#351

Post by gorio »

goodcanadian wrote: post #342
gorio wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we disagree. Linux works until is doesn't, which is the problem. It isn't a handful of programs so much as a wide range of capabilities. We can all speculate the taste of the average user, but do you think companies wouldn't love running desktop Linux instead of paying millions to Microsoft? That is what everyone did when Linux actually became good enough as a server OS.

I guess we do, as I've said elsewhere, it has literally been years since I've encountered anything I couldn't do on Linux just the same as on Windows. I firmly believe the reason more organisations haven't changed is inertia. To paraphrase a cliché, no one was ever fired for choosing Microsoft.

I don't see how inertia would be the reason if you also believe that it has been good enough for 15 years. I would say desktop Linux simply doesn't offer enough unique value for the effort involved in large scale deployments, unless you are someone like Google. Most things that have improved for users in recent years, like web application, actually favours Windows. Because the primary use case for desktop operating systems are becoming what is beyond that of web or smart phone applications. Leaving desktop Linux with the lowest common denominator.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#352

Post by oaiey »

oil25 wrote: post #117

We've come a long way from Bill Gates' original characterization of open source (long before it was called that) as thievery - https://worldhistoryproject.org/1976/2/bill-gates-writes-ope... I'm still sure as ever Microsoft is no friend of free (as in Freedom, not price) software and can't help but shake my head at this latest publicity stunt. I wouldn't trust their software any further than I throw it.

Microsoft of today is only interested in one thing: earning money. Like any other corporation. if contributing to free software earns money (Azure, Developer mindshare, Store) they will do it. And the Linux foundation knows how to defend itself IP wise.

It is about earning money. RedHat does it. Microsoft does it.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#353

Post by oaiey »

mehrdadn wrote: post #307
harrygeez wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for starters, it's not your typical VirtualBox VM running off your host OS. The Linux kernel in WSL2 runs on top of Hyper-V alongside Windows, which is also in a VM. Microsoft is leveraging the same technology they use to run Windows on Xbox alongside the game OS, so it's really like an OS with 2 kernels

I get that it's on a hypervisor but from a user standpoint how is that beneficial or any different from just running a normal VM in a hypervisor, is my question? Like I could've already run Hyper-V and installed Linux, so (how) is WSL2 different/better?

I cannot answer your question. I can just tell you that they brought back Dave Cutler from retirement for this concept found in XBox and now Windows 10. This is definitely not that everyone's VM.

And if you do not know Dave Cutler... Well he is a VMS veteran (a system which was also ground up virtualized) who designed the Windows NT Kernel. He is essentially a legend in the field of operating systems and engineering. There is a nice documentation around him.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#354

Post by posix_me_less »

freehunter wrote: post #61
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #36

All the Linux with none of the freedom. Yaaaay?

To be fair, plenty of people care more about the "Linux" than they do about the "freedom" part. Case in point: macOS. Basically everything that makes it "macOS" is proprietary, but it gained popularity because it was mostly Linux-compatible. Unix compatibility is worth quite a bit on its own, Linux wouldn't have gotten half as far without it. And Unix is historically proprietary and closed-source.

Macos is not "mostly Linux-compatible". It has unixy tools from GNU and other places, but it has little to do with Linux. Ecosystem, native development is different. Some tech is badlyemulated, e.g. Docker containers. If anything, use of Macos shows that people found a way to work with a shiny unixy desktop software without Linux and without software freedom.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#356

Post by oedmarap »

bytecod wrote: post #219
tannhaeuser wrote: post #214

Please could someone point me to a practical guide for a layman on how to run Linux apps on Windows 10? I want to give users compact installation instructions for shell and Node.js apps (1) mostly written for Linux/Mac OS, but I couldn't figure out what Windows version (Professional?) is required for WSL/WSL2, and how to install it. (1) Node.js of course runs natively on Win; however my apps makes particular assumpti…

WSL can be installed on any version of windows 10 from home up. Users first need to enable the WSL optional feature in their windows install, then they can install their favorite distro's userland from the windows store. More detailed instructions here: https://aka.ms/wslinstall

Additionally, if you don't wish to use the Microsoft Store you can download the distro packages individually. [0]

You then open/unzip the '.appx' package with any archiver such as 7Zip and place the files in a folder of your choosing; simply launching the distro executable ('ubuntu1804.exe' for example) to install and register the distro.

You can then use that same executable to launch WSL for that distro in its own window, which makes it easy to add the icon as a shortcut to your taskbar for quick access like you would any Windows program, without having to open command line first.

Added benefit is that you can store all your distros as folders (with individual rootfs and config files) in a parent location of your choosing such as a fast external array, without having to use the MS Store or an MS Account.

[0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-manual

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#358

Post by hollander »

ehnto wrote: post #343
dehrmann wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While people nitpick over what "linux desktop" means, don't lose sight of the fact that general purpose computing is slowly dying and being replaced by iOS and Android. Roughly as many iPhones are sold per year as desktops and laptops combined.

Considering the majority of work computing is done on desktops I'm not sure it will be replaced by iOS or Android any time soon.

We need a proper keyboard, and a bigger screen, at a bigger distance. I can't look at my phone too long. My eyes start to tear up and the pain is horrible. A tablet won't be much better if you hold it in your hand - same distance as the phone. I can understand that many people use a tablet for work, but not for 6-8 hours a day.

And just as the Mac Mini is a laptop without screen and keyboard, the latest Macbooks are more and more iPads with a good keyboard. Well, good keyboards is questionable even these days...

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#359

Post by znpy »

mtzet wrote: post #265

This is really Microsoft catching up to the Mac in terms of integration with the open-source ecosystem which importantly drives the web. In the mid 2000's the Mac really took off due to being a good-enough Linux replacement on the command line, while taking care of all the hardware integration and providing a sleek desktop experience. This really helped the Mac take off among hackers. This system wasn't as open-sourc…

> If the stack we care about is open-source and runs across many systems, then we still have the freedom.

No we do not.

Re: Microsoft's Linux Kernel

#360

Post by rleigh »

pritambaral wrote: post #233
fortran77 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know that macOS users don't run Docker natively! On Windows, it's native: https://docs.docker.com/docker-for-windows/

That cannot run Linux containers, only Windows containers, no?

You can switch between one or the other. Oddly, it can't run both at the same time.
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