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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

wsj.com

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Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#231

Post by darkpuma »

hugi wrote: post #167
40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

I'm constantly amazed by how Americans think they're so awesome that they think they can criticize China politically.

While civil rights deriving from the principle of awesomeness sounds like a totally rad way to run a society, in truth that is not the premise of America's First Amendment.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#232

Post by dang »

throwmex wrote: post #209
hugi wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm constantly amazed by how Americans think they're so awesome that they think they can criticize China politically.

Don't you dare say that the emperor is nude. You will be shown the guillotine.

Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News along the way.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#233

Post by seanmcdirmid »

wahern wrote: post #195
jshowa3 wrote: post #134

I honestly think the China IP rip off is overblown, and this is coming from someone who works there often. Also, if open source software has demonstrated, sequestering IP behind patents is a hindrance to society. And your critique about civil rights abuses could equally be leveled against the US itself. After all, we put several immigrant children in concentration camps on the daily because they just want to move to…

> I honestly think the China IP rip off is overblown, and this is coming from someone who works there often. You wouldn't be the first person with real experience working in China making that point. From everything I've read the IP issue is way overblown. There are some high-profile cases but in general it seems to be used as a convenient cudgel for other purposes. AFAICT the real issue working in China is that it's…

The weakness Of rule of law is a common criticism raised against China, which is a huge reason foreign companies (and foreigners) have difficulties being in China.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#234

Post by [deleted] »

gentran wrote: post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

[deleted]

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#235

Post by rossdavidh »

gentran wrote: post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

I think that is giving CEO's and corporate boards way, way more credit for long term thinking than they deserve. Corporations base their business out of whatever gives them the best result over the time period when they expect to be involved. If it's a founder, that is a lifetime commitment, probably, unless the founder is intending to sell to a larger business. But in any other case, the CEO and all of the other high-ranking types are thinking about this year and next, for the most part.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#236

Post by fortran77 »

addicted wrote: post #191
fortran77 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in big letters above it are "DESIGNED IN CALIFORNIA" and that deception works for most people.

The vast majority of profits go to Apple in the US, so I’m not sure why everyone is so focused on China. I believe we’ve previously seen research that of a $700 iphone, only $30-40 goes to China. Edit: Here’s the link https://theconversation.com/we-estimate-china-only-makes-8-4... I was wrong. They estimated only about $8 of the $240 manufacturing cost of an iPhone goes to China. Edit x2: I remember why I misremember…

Yes, but still the "DESIGNED IN CALIFORNIA" is meant to counteract the "Made In" designation (which is a legal requirement) beneath it. Perhaps we need labeling which says what country gets most of the money!

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#237

Post by frequentnapper »

bduerst wrote: post #216
smacktoward wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that these types of regimes tend to preside over a system that's extremely stable, right up to the moment when it really really is not . Batista's Cuba was very stable and friendly to foreign investment too, for instance. Then along came Castro, and suddenly not only was it not particularly stable, but lots of those foreign companies had all their holdings expropriated by the new government for having…

The difference being that China's culture, for the most part, is okay with the surveillance state. There's protests for sure, and places Hong Kong (an ex-British colony) are not okay with it, but most Chinese citizens are aware of the censorship and don't care. I think what's happening more is that westerners are projecting their own culture and philosophies onto the population. Americans are especially passionate ab…

It's not just about censorship and surveillance. These are there to prevent people from finding out and doing something about other forms of oppression. So what you are saying is that Chinese people culturally don't care about govt oppression unless it's their turn?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#238

Post by mattnewton »

reymus wrote: post #121
save_ferris wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO The current MacBook design iteration has mostly been a disappointment. The hardware quality has materially worsened over the previous generation, with numerous reports of keyboard, screen, and speaker issues. They sacrificed far too much in order to achieve the thin form factor. The touchbar is also a terrible joke. I’ve had two current-gen MBPs through work and both of them have completely convinced me against b…

Your points are completely valid, I get your frustration. But you are comparing against previous generations of MacBooks. I would like to know your thoughts when comparing against e.g. a top tier ThinkPad running Windows or Linux.

I couldn’t use it long enough to unlearn using the trackpad as a crutch. Thinkpad trackpads are pretty terrible by comparison. I also hated trying to use windows and didn’t want to keep maintaining a Linux install, though that might have gotten better lately.

I am going to ride out my personal 2013 mbp until they fix the keyboards on the new machines. I have a new one at work, and each incremental fix still breaks after a while and I don’t think they have ironed it out. It’s a beautiful feeling machine and I want to love it. However, you can get everything else perfect and screw up the keyboard, and it doesn’t matter because I can’t get work done.

If they don’t get it right by the time my current MBP dies completely I guess I’ll see how far Linux has come. I’d suggest the same for you - even as an apple shareholder and former employee I can’t recommend a programmer buy a laptop with such an unreliable keyboard. But if they nail the keyboard in the next generation, absolutely hop aboard the bandwagon.

Pretty much it comes down to the flaky keyboards for me. USBC support is just getting better, the displays and trackpad are still best in class, and a lightweight aluminum unibody design is something I didn’t think I would miss but you absolutely do. The OS is widely supported by a community of other developers, and it is super easy to set up a productive development environment. And the OS is widely supported by hardware and software vendors too, so you don’t have to fight compatibility issues nearly as much as Linux.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#239

Post by smacktoward »

bduerst wrote: post #216
smacktoward wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that these types of regimes tend to preside over a system that's extremely stable, right up to the moment when it really really is not . Batista's Cuba was very stable and friendly to foreign investment too, for instance. Then along came Castro, and suddenly not only was it not particularly stable, but lots of those foreign companies had all their holdings expropriated by the new government for having…

The difference being that China's culture, for the most part, is okay with the surveillance state. There's protests for sure, and places Hong Kong (an ex-British colony) are not okay with it, but most Chinese citizens are aware of the censorship and don't care. I think what's happening more is that westerners are projecting their own culture and philosophies onto the population. Americans are especially passionate ab…

> The difference being that China's culture, for the most part, is okay with the surveillance state.

If they weren't, how would you know? Do you honestly think anyone who isn't would be dumb enough to say so out loud, especially to a pollster or a foreigner?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#240

Post by esmi »

pwinnski wrote: post #107
Shivetya wrote: post #20

Well I was not going to buy one, the price jump from the previous Pro was not something I or many expected or appreciated. I will get on my soap box again. Apple needs to be out of China, not moving more manufacturing to that country. What will it take to get Apple to stand up for the rights of the oppressed in China or are they that wrapped up in dollars they no longer see the people component? For a country which s…

I believe you are over-simplifying a very complicated argument, although perhaps HN is not the place for the full argument. When I was young, I lived in nightly fear of China. I lived on a military base in the 1980s, and read conspiratorialist material my parents had in the house. One of my greatest fears was China's army of hundreds of millions of men. Today I don't fear China. I have a ten-year tourist visa for Chi…

> I believe the difference is economic engagement. The economic interests of both America and China are too entangled now to imagine a military war between the two countries.

This was a very popular argument before world war one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Illusion

It's true that World War One didn't disprove Angell's specific argument (war is economically and socially irrational) but economic interests don't prevent them either.

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