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Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

nytimes.com

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Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#191

Post by mistermann »

chunkyLafunga wrote: post #181
Fjolsvith wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are only seeing half of Trump's hand by looking at Twitter. Trump has a front channel which is Twitter (et. al.) and a back channel which you nor I am privy to. He uses both of these to achieve results. Also, assuming that Trump doesn't utilize advisers seems to be willful ignorance. Trump studies a topic in depth before making a decision, and he very much listens to experts in that study.

really?????? Mr. I know more about.... (fill in the blanks)... than everyone else, listens to experts, give me a break.

Think about what you're saying for a moment, the literal meaning of your words.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#192

Post by wolco »

trymas wrote: post #60
humanrebar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but it's not ironic. Parties are fluid organizations, not internally coherent philosophies. And even if they were, people are allowed to rethink their ideas.

I know what you are trying to say, but IMO that's practically the definition of irony. > Economic-liberals in the US have mostly been Republicans historically. > people are allowed to rethink their ideas. Of course people can change their minds and opinions. But that's what is ironic and funny - to completely change your long time historical behaviour.

It makes sense. Free trades hurts the poorest/uneducated/minorities who use to support Democrates because they wanted trade barriers.

As Democrates have become more global and open to free trade they lost the poor/uneducated.

The poor/rural/uneducated are not represented in hollywood. So people forget they exist. Everyone seems to run a magazine / is a doctor/lawyer/firefighter. It creates this fake viewpoint that these other people don't exist in the numbers they do.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#193

Post by scarejunba »

pjc50 wrote: post #8
scarejunba wrote: post #3

The semiconductor is game-changing tech. When America allowed the Hygon Dhyana to be made, America fucked up. Hold it back. This is real tech. You can't let it go. I'm for free societies, but free societies must defend themselves from societies organized to kill free societies. The semiconductor is real. Giving away this will pay poor dividends.

This is ridiculous. Semiconductor manufacturing has been globalised for decades . The "other China" has had TSMC since 1987, and they are world leaders. > Hold it back It's technology. Talking about technology is speech. You can have free speech or technology export restrictions but not both. Why do people keep suggesting ways to keep America ""free"" that make it substantially less free? Especially since 9/11.

Taiwan is not China.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#194

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

ThomPete wrote: post #173
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American companies have access to the Chinese market. If you go to any major Chinese city, that will be obvious to you pretty quickly. American brands are everywhere. US companies do very well for themselves in the Chinese market. The reason for the trade imbalance is not Chinese protectionism, but rather structural issues in the United States and the Dollar's role as global reserve currency.

Sorry but this is simply wrong. Europe is well aware of this problem too and there is support for Trumps war with china far into the EU. China doesn't protect IP exactly because of the way they operate. Why do you think they don't want to enforce IP rights in China?

What, precisely, is wrong? It is simply a fact that American brands are omnipresent in China. It's a very striking thing if you go to any big Chinese city - how many Western restaurants, hotels, clothing brands, automobile brands and technology brands are everywhere.

The idea that China doesn't protect IP is a cliché one hears in the West, but it's not accurate. Developing countries generally have much weaker IP enforcement than developed countries. But as far as developing countries go, my understanding is that China actually has pretty strong IP enforcement now. There have been massive changes to the Chinese legal and regulatory system as part of its entry into the WTO, but a country that had a GDP/capita of just hundreds of dollars a generation ago is not going to become Western Europe overnight.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#195

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

ThomPete wrote: post #175
DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of American brands are in China. The restrictions are about censorship of information, so they affect Google, Facebook and newspapers. You can still buy Starbucks, Levi jeans, iPhones, Ford automobiles and KFC buckets.

I.e the big companies yes those who also have much of their production done in China. Thats not the same as China being open to western companies like the west is to china. And again no IP protection with countless cases of ip theft and forced technology transfer by the mafia run chinese goverment. To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd.

> To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd.

The US has a trade deficit with almost all of its trading partners. That is a structural issue.

> no IP protection

That's a crude caricature. There is IP protection in China. If that weren't the case, American microchip designers would not be making such large licensing fees in China. As far as I understand it, as a non-expert, IP protection in China is actually fairly good for a developing country.

> Thats not the same as China being open to western companies like the west is to china.

Western brands have much greater penetration in the Chinese market than vice versa. Moreover, much of the American trade deficit with China is actually made up of Western companies doing production in China.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#196

Post by ThomPete »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #195
ThomPete wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I.e the big companies yes those who also have much of their production done in China. Thats not the same as China being open to western companies like the west is to china. And again no IP protection with countless cases of ip theft and forced technology transfer by the mafia run chinese goverment. To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd.

> To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd. The US has a trade deficit with almost all of its trading partners. That is a structural issue. > no IP protection That's a crude caricature. There is IP protection in China. If that weren't the case, American microchip designers would not be making such large licensing fees in China. As far as I understand it, as a non-expert, IP protection in China is actual…

>The US has a trade deficit with almost all of its trading partners. That is a structural issue.

But has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

It's not a crude caricature. IP protection in china is non existing which anyone who even done a little business in china knows very well. It's litterally one of the biggest criticisms so I am not sure where you are getting your information from, none the less it's incorrect.

Chinese don't need their brands to western markets they just need to produce for our markets. The difference is that the west doesn't hinder chinese companies to compete on our markets, china does hinder us competing on theirs.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#197

Post by ThomPete »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #194
ThomPete wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but this is simply wrong. Europe is well aware of this problem too and there is support for Trumps war with china far into the EU. China doesn't protect IP exactly because of the way they operate. Why do you think they don't want to enforce IP rights in China?

What, precisely, is wrong? It is simply a fact that American brands are omnipresent in China. It's a very striking thing if you go to any big Chinese city - how many Western restaurants, hotels, clothing brands, automobile brands and technology brands are everywhere. The idea that China doesn't protect IP is a cliché one hears in the West, but it's not accurate. Developing countries generally have much weaker IP enfo…

You are missing the point here. Big brands are part of the problem here, they are the ones who got acces to chinese markets by offering jobs. We are talking about normal companies not just big brands that get things produced in china. I would urge you to study the subject a little more, you will be surprised how much of what you think is simply wrong.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#198

Post by dang »

dproblem wrote: post #41

[flagged]

Please do not take HN threads on flamewar tangents or use HN for political (or national) battle. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20303294.

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#199

Post by dang »

typon wrote: post #51
dproblem wrote: post #41

[flagged]

Unbelievable how Americans can be so brainwashed about their country's status in the world yet believe that they're completely "free"

Please do not post unsubstantive comments and especially not flamebait to HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Trade War Has Damaged U.S. Chip Industry

#200

Post by jjoonathan »

adinobro wrote: post #114
jjoonathan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China can make new IP too. Our big advantage was our head start and we blew it. I'd love to be wrong. As for letting China continue to reap the benefits of being defined as a developing nation, yes, that's absurd, and also needed to stop 10-20 years ago.

There are still almost 50,000,000 people in China that live on less than $2 a day. The GDP per capita is roughly 3x less than the US. 20 years ago there was close to 700,000,000 people living on less than $2 a day and there was no underground subway in all of China. Do you really think this was developed? A few cities (Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou & Shenzhen) are developed (~6% of the country) while the rest is still…

Trade and competition happens with the developed parts. Our policy should reflect that.
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