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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

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181–190 of 336 posts

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#181
post #108
post #72

"More than 80% of the workers working across three assembly lines were contract employees paid minimum wage for eight-hour workday...when their shift ended, many walked off the job, he said—even if the lines were still running." Of course they did, that's what anyone in that situation would do surely? Are they supposed to work for below minimum wage because the company can't organise shift changeover properly?

No -- well, it depends, and that's a false dichotomy. I work until the job is done (or I'm cut) and the workplace is safe. It's the employer's responsibility to pay me at least the legal minimum wage for hours worked. If that means I'm going into OT because they can't organize shift changes properly, that's their problem. There are usually also legal or contractual requirements for breaks, so I'd be prepared to say "…

> If that means I'm going into OT because they can't organize shift changes properly, that's their problem.

If I'm a minimum-wage contract worker, I might have another job to go to after this one and I can't work OT. I need to go home, feed my children perhaps, and then get them to bed before my night shift at Food Co. or my evening English lessons.

If you're paying minimum wage, and not hiring your workers full time, you can't automatically expect your hires to just "stick around" for overtime.

Also, many employers do not let employees take overtime period because in some places once a contractor passes over XX hours per week, they are entitled to benefits.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#182
post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

Have you been following what China does to entire population groups that threaten their stability? Name one country that is more stable for mass production than China? Its just not the leafy vision of stability you had in mind.

>Name one country that is more stable for mass production than China?

India

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#183
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

That was a really long way of not explaining what the US steals, in terms of IP, from other countries. It was also a pretty lengthy way to mascarade the damning false equivalence. China is, undoubtely, worse, in terms of human rights and development. No, the US is not the best. China is far worse.

Why? Do you think bombing xinjiang is better?

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#184
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

"USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they mention it, they will put phrase it like "America liberated the population of Irak " This is complete rubbish. The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level, where China is. Second - geopolitical issues have nothing to do with theft of IP,…

> The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level, where China is.

Seriously? You are kidding right? You must be kidding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Examples_of_industrial...

The most poplular examples are probably German Enercon and Dutch Airbus, but our own Belgian Lernout & Hauspie was also targeted by something you are in complete denial of.

It's Europe here, we're supposed to be allies, no? So why is your government literally stealing business using industrial espionage? That's like sleeping with your best friends wife.

So yeah, get your facts straight please.

"No I didn't sleep with your wife, I would never do such a thing! But THAT guy, THAT guy does it!"

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#185
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

"USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they mention it, they will put phrase it like "America liberated the population of Irak " This is complete rubbish. The US is not in the business of industrial espionage for commercial purposes - either on a corporate or governmental level, where China is. Second - geopolitical issues have nothing to do with theft of IP,…

Nazi level stuff? really? 100 of thousands, that’s close to how many people died in Iraq now. Why don’t we just start World War III is you all think it is really Nazi stuff.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is led by a fairly Leninist party structure in nominal terms China's party structure was fine and decidedly non-dictatorial. Deng was not a dictator and neither was Hu Jintao. They did not, like Xi has, ensconce themselves as leaders for life [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/26/xi-jinping-chi...

Nothing much about the party structure has changed. Xi doesn't get any more power than he has right now simply because of a term limit removal. Given how opaque and complex the power distribution inside the communist party is, Xi could have feasibly governed with a marionette in place without changing the term limits at all, just like Putin in Russia while Medvedev was in office. China was certainly much more dictato…

Xi doesn’t have more power because of the term limits removal. But the fact that he was able to get the term limits removed was a public display of the power he has accumulated.

And the way he has done that is by imprisoning and killing competitors to his power. The fact that he could even contemplate bringing the term limit up indicated that he was certain at that point that there was no one to compete with him within the party, who would protest the term limits removal.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#187
I am sorry that US lost some jobs. And some are making a few thousands less than before. But the world is developing, and things are cheaper. Not only life in developed world is getting better, developing world is seeing more jobs. I am sorry that developed world is not winning all because of foul play by players lagging behind and trying to catch up.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#188
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, I'm an equal opportunity critic when it comes to human rights. In the same breath that I condemn the Chinese government for it's actions in Xianjiang I condemn the current administration for locking up children at our border. Life is too grey to silence yourself on issues you care strongly about.

Just an FYI I think you mean Xinjiang, and not Xianjiang. I only mention it since you typed it the same in two different comments.

No, I think it's a very telling thing that there are people out there who comment authoritatively about a place whose name they can't even spell. There are multiple examples in this thread.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#189
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I invite you to Dachau if you want a tour there. Dachau never was a formal extermination camp, but it was the concentration camp after which all other concentration camps were modeled and then modified. Maybe after a tour there you learn to be quiet about things you don't understand.

[flagged]

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#190

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

If you believe USA has better human rights record, think again. Just read about how this country treats its black citizens.

Let me mention the Vietnam war, for which most HN readers are probably familiar with. I was in the War Remnants Museum in Saigon and here is what I saw.

In one photo, taken by US journalist, a Viet Cong was being held on the ground by American GIs, a rag is placed over the man's face and water is poured over it, making breathing impossible. That's called water torture. And that was 1968.

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