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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

wsj.com

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Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#161

Post by freehunter »

peterhadlaw wrote: post #156
magduf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. How is that worse than doing business in a nation that has imprisoned thousands of impoverished migrants in concentration camps and has forcibly separated children from their families, to the point where many of…

[flagged]

Racist is a now-obsolete term? Um okay...

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#162

Post by allthecybers »

throwawayMUSE wrote: post #154
40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

I work for one of the large companies whose product or services you probably use every day, maybe even multiple times a day. One of the top people in my company has stated concretely to his leadership team that he doesn’t “give a fuck” about existing employees’ mental health or burning out. As long as we keep recruiting and maintain butts in seats, it doesn’t matter. This person is responsible for a massive chunk of…

Today's major publicly traded companies have one allegiance and that is creating shareholder value aka profit. So if the company doesn't give an eff about employees in the US, why would they care about supplier ethics or the treatment of workers in China.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#163

Post by drivingmenuts »

40acres wrote: post #158
riq_ wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. First of all: You are not wrong. But similar things can be said about USA. USA steals a lot of stuff too. But of course the American press won't tell you about that. Or if they m…

To be clear, I am many times more critical of my own government and the history of this nation than I ever can be of a foreign nation. My user name is specifically a reference to civil war era promises to freed slaves that were broken and the legacy of reconstruction. That being said, just because my government does it doesn't mean that I can't call a spade a spade when I see it. What the Chinese government is doing…

Sure, you can call out their malfeasance, treachery, outright shenanigans, whatever, but is it appropriate to get upset about it when your own side is just as treacherous?

I’m starting to reach the point where, short of outright killing people, I just don’t care because my country of residence is just as bad as the “bad” guys. Worse, nothing will really ever change that.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#164

Post by sgift »

peterhadlaw wrote: post #156
magduf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. How is that worse than doing business in a nation that has imprisoned thousands of impoverished migrants in concentration camps and has forcibly separated children from their families, to the point where many of…

[flagged]

I invite you to Dachau if you want a tour there. Dachau never was a formal extermination camp, but it was the concentration camp after which all other concentration camps were modeled and then modified. Maybe after a tour there you learn to be quiet about things you don't understand.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#166

Post by Barrin92 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #146
Barrin92 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's now a dictatorship, with a single man ruling for life. This is a cartoon take on China. Yes, China is led by a fairly Leninist party structure in nominal terms, but in terms of management China is relatively decentralised. Politically but in particular fiscally regional and local authorities manage day-to-day operations with significant leeway depending on the region, anything else would be unfeasible in a coun…

> China is led by a fairly Leninist party structure in nominal terms China's party structure was fine and decidedly non-dictatorial. Deng was not a dictator and neither was Hu Jintao. They did not, like Xi has, ensconce themselves as leaders for life [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/26/xi-jinping-chi...

Nothing much about the party structure has changed. Xi doesn't get any more power than he has right now simply because of a term limit removal. Given how opaque and complex the power distribution inside the communist party is, Xi could have feasibly governed with a marionette in place without changing the term limits at all, just like Putin in Russia while Medvedev was in office.

China was certainly much more dictatorial than any Western country before this change, and it isn't much more dictatorial now. Xi's extension of time in office isn't really related to governance as much as it is related to the problem of succession. With significant amounts of the old guard finally reaching retirement age, there is a fear of political instability in the party.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#167

Post by hugi »

40acres wrote: post #123

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day. In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned tho…

I'm constantly amazed by how Americans think they're so awesome that they think they can criticize China politically.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#168

Post by 40acres »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #163
40acres wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I am many times more critical of my own government and the history of this nation than I ever can be of a foreign nation. My user name is specifically a reference to civil war era promises to freed slaves that were broken and the legacy of reconstruction. That being said, just because my government does it doesn't mean that I can't call a spade a spade when I see it. What the Chinese government is doing…

Sure, you can call out their malfeasance, treachery, outright shenanigans, whatever, but is it appropriate to get upset about it when your own side is just as treacherous? I’m starting to reach the point where, short of outright killing people, I just don’t care because my country of residence is just as bad as the “bad” guys. Worse, nothing will really ever change that.

Trust me, I'm an equal opportunity critic when it comes to human rights. In the same breath that I condemn the Chinese government for it's actions in Xianjiang I condemn the current administration for locking up children at our border.

Life is too grey to silence yourself on issues you care strongly about.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#169

Post by yeahitslikethat »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #163
40acres wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I am many times more critical of my own government and the history of this nation than I ever can be of a foreign nation. My user name is specifically a reference to civil war era promises to freed slaves that were broken and the legacy of reconstruction. That being said, just because my government does it doesn't mean that I can't call a spade a spade when I see it. What the Chinese government is doing…

Sure, you can call out their malfeasance, treachery, outright shenanigans, whatever, but is it appropriate to get upset about it when your own side is just as treacherous? I’m starting to reach the point where, short of outright killing people, I just don’t care because my country of residence is just as bad as the “bad” guys. Worse, nothing will really ever change that.

Killing people isn't right though. You shouldn't do that or even threaten that.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#170

Post by msbarnett »

peterhadlaw wrote: post #156
magduf wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps. How is that worse than doing business in a nation that has imprisoned thousands of impoverished migrants in concentration camps and has forcibly separated children from their families, to the point where many of…

[flagged]

"Concentration camps" predate the Nazis by centuries, and post-date them as well.

You're mistaking concentration camps in general with the smaller subset of industrialized death camps in specific that we associate with the Holocaust.

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