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Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

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Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#731

Post by erikpukinskis »

anbop wrote: post #492

The new headquarters syndrome strikes again. Ive, sidelined, went eyeballs deep into the new headquarters, alongside a decline in physical product quality like the trashcan design miss and keyboard gremlins. Hardware and software teams kept executing but there’s clearly a need for a change in design.

It’s Steve Jobs’ mausoleum. Probably an important landmark for the next century, even if it’s a distraction now. I’m sure most mausoleums seem pointless when they are built but a good mausoleum can be an important player in future history.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#732

Post by chipotle_coyote »

CPLX wrote: post #692
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What dongle epidemic? A USB-C version of every important cord or connector has existed for _years_. Anyone who still has dongles is choosing them.

If you walk into an Apple store and buy their top of the line laptop and top of the line phone and take them home you’ll quickly realize there is no way to plug them in to each other. That is, in fact, stupid.

A couple counterarguments:

(1) "No way with the cables included in the box" is not the same as "no way." There's a USB-C to Lightning cable in the bag right next to me. That lets me plug a top of the line Apple laptop into a top of the line Apple phone. With no dongle, even.

(2) In practice, there are zero times over the last two years that I've had to plug a phone into a laptop. I can't honestly remember why I bought this cable; I think I wanted to see whether USB tethering to the phone was better than using the mobile hotspot feature (spoiler: kind of a wash). I am sure there are people reading this, possibly including you, raising their fists to the sky and screaming BUT IT IS THE PRINCIPLE OF THE MATTER, and, sure, okay, I guess. But is it?

One can make that argument that Apple should include both cables in the boxes, or a USB-A to USB-C dongle, or something. But in practice, just how many people need the USB-C cable for their phone, even if they have a USB-C laptop? The vast majority of people are probably only using Lightning cables to charge their phone from a charger, in which case it doesn't matter, or to plug into their car, which means they need USB-A anyway. (People may also be using Lightning-to-not-USB dongles, like headphone ports and HDMI output, but that's irrelevant to this.)

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#733

Post by erikpukinskis »

koboll wrote: post #411
TimTheTinker wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But design is everything. It is both form and function. Steve Jobs would agree with you: "People think it's this veneer – that the designers are handed this box and told, 'Make it look good!' That's not what we think design is. It's not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." So I think OP's term "tyranny of design" could be better phrased "tyranny of form" (as opposed to function).

A big part of the problem is that many designers seem to really want to be artists, not designers, and they tend to want to pull design in an artistic (i.e. form-centric) direction. A casual glance at Dribbble makes this pretty clear.

Good artists are also not obsessed with form though. Great artists usually have very specific functional goals for their work.

It’s fetishists who are obsessed with objects and their shape.

I agree, many bad designers would rather be bad artists. But it’s harder to make money as a bad artist than a bad designer.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#734

Post by msbarnett »

0xffff2 wrote: post #161
msbarnett wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The USB-C to HDMI is the worst adapter I've ever seen. FWIW, you're far better off getting a native cable with a USB-C end like [1] or [2] rather than using a dongle. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-USB-C-Supporting-Black/... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-DisplayPort-USB-C-Suppo...

Maybe for your personal monitors. A far more annoying problem is connecting to conference room projectors. My or still has conference rooms with nothing but VGA cables plugged in to the projector.

Well, yes. I’m responding to someone who was complaining about the quality of his USB-C dongle for HDMI output.

My suggestion obviously wasn’t intended to cover your bizarro workplace’s 1980s VGA needs. Because I’m not psychic and have no idea who you are.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#735

Post by dividido »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #655
AimForTheBushes wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gorgeous and mostly user-friendly products, but slightly too caught up in their own cleverness instead of the actual needs of real users. This is so true. Hence the dongle epidemic.

What dongle epidemic? A USB-C version of every important cord or connector has existed for _years_. Anyone who still has dongles is choosing them.

I do think usb-c and thunderbolt over usb-c are the future. However, what is problematic is they've put the design of super thin over practical. What once were internal components are now external dongles. The price of the laptops didn't go down because of less hardware, it actually went up and increased/grew a market of dongle-land. Now to get an equivalent laptop from a few years before we have to spend hundreds of dollars to be able to connect that external monitor, use ethernet, or usb-a.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#736

Post by buildawesome »

jobu wrote: post #704
CPLX wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you walk into an Apple store and buy their top of the line laptop and top of the line phone and take them home you’ll quickly realize there is no way to plug them in to each other. That is, in fact, stupid.

It's ridiculous that iPhone didn't switch to USB-C when they dropped the headphone jack. Apple used to be so good about consistency and compatibility between products.

If we're talking about consistency, how about the headphone port on the Macbook? You need a dongle to listen to music on your phone, if you want to use the same headphones for your computer.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#737

Post by AimForTheBushes »

richrichardsson wrote: post #708
AimForTheBushes wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He made a lot of good points and then his entire argument went out the window in the last sentence.

So because you don't agree with 1 out of the 15 points, suddenly those other 14 are null and void? Pffff. You just have to look at all the "No, it's really not that bad a price" comments re the upcoming Mac Pro to see he does have a point there.

It's just off-putting.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#738

Post by giobox »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #655
AimForTheBushes wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gorgeous and mostly user-friendly products, but slightly too caught up in their own cleverness instead of the actual needs of real users. This is so true. Hence the dongle epidemic.

What dongle epidemic? A USB-C version of every important cord or connector has existed for _years_. Anyone who still has dongles is choosing them.

Tell that to Apple then, who are still shipping a USB-A to Lightning cable inside every single iPhone box that is incompatible with the vast majority of computers they ship, and has been for years now.

Apple's own products often need additional dongle purchases to work with each other using the standard cables they ship with. This is not just a question of people choosing them, a new cable or a dongle is forced if you want to charge your Apple phone from most Apple laptops.

I'd argue that when Apple feel the market for USB-C is mature enough that they can ship a USB-C cable in an iPhone box, this is probably the canary in the coal mine that indicates the dongle epidemic is over.

Older readers will remember that in the PowerPC era, the Powerbooks and iBooks often shipped with a handful of video dongles as standard - in the box no less! (my S-Video one got a lot of use way back when). If Apple had just shipped a single reliable USB-A -> C adapter with every MacBook and stomached the tiny cost, this could have appeased a great many people rightly annoyed by this badly managed port transition.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#739

Post by TheReveller »

johnminter wrote: post #614
theturtletalks wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mid 2012 Macbook Pro Retina was the best Macbook. It had a HDMI port, USB-A ports, SD card reader, and a Magsafe plug that wouldn't send your Mac flying if someone ran into the cord. Mine worked well for 6 years, but it had a hidden defect where the graphics card would cause a kernel panic. Even though it was a factory defect, Apple said it was "vintage" and I was forced to upgrade. Sad part is Apple will never m…

I'm still using mine. I'm seriosly thinking of moving to Linux when it is no longer working or supported by the OS. And that MagSafe adapter has saved my bacon on multiple occasions...

I had one too, and I went to a pixelbook instead of the new MBP. Pixelbook is awesome, form factor is great, it is so light, and now that I'm used to tap-to-click, going back to a Mac trackpad feels so clunky.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#740

Post by jlarocco »

gridlockd wrote: post #683
oliveshell wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I want to get 10 GB of RAW photos onto my 2013 MacBook Pro, I just pop the SD card out of the camera and into the laptop. Transfer is done in about a minute or two. No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. That’s a step backwards.

> No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. So you go out and buy a dongle. Or you just connect the Camera with a cable and you don't have to fiddle with the tiny SD card. I personally never use SD cards, or any other flash cards. I never use the ethernet jack on a laptop. I very rarely use thumbdrives or other USB devices. I also don't use serial out, or PCMCIA, or compact…

It's great that you don't mind throwing out all of your peripherals every time Apple decides to remove a port.

I personally have better things to spend money on, so I generally don't get rid of my devices until they stop working. Apple's made it a PITA to do that, so I've stopped buying their products. Problem solved.

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