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Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

wsj.com

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Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#121

Post by reymus »

save_ferris wrote: post #69
TallGuyShort wrote: post #29

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

IMO The current MacBook design iteration has mostly been a disappointment. The hardware quality has materially worsened over the previous generation, with numerous reports of keyboard, screen, and speaker issues. They sacrificed far too much in order to achieve the thin form factor. The touchbar is also a terrible joke. I’ve had two current-gen MBPs through work and both of them have completely convinced me against b…

Your points are completely valid, I get your frustration. But you are comparing against previous generations of MacBooks. I would like to know your thoughts when comparing against e.g. a top tier ThinkPad running Windows or Linux.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#122

Post by Rooster61 »

namirez wrote: post #110
Rooster61 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a painfully oblivious statement. Have you been under a rock for the past 100 years? Corporations put profits in front of human rights CONSTANTLY, often with the grudging acceptance of the majority of the populace and a blind eye from governments. In fact, I think it would be very difficult to name even 30 companies in Forbes Top 100 list that someone would be hard pressed to find no examples of running afoul…

I ignore your first paragraph since it sounds hostile. As for the rest, obviously, free market has a self-correcting mechanism. Corporations need consumers so they cannot simply "run afoul of basic human rights" as you said or they get a pushback from the populace. But at the same time, western companies send their manufacturing to Asia due to lower costs despite the lax labor and environmental regulations in those c…

I didn't say it was controversial, I think your statement that companies not having any chance of surviving due to stepping on human rights issues is flatly and verifiably wrong. That's evidenced by my second point that the vast majority of the most powerful corporations on Earth can and do infringe on said rights, and have done so for quite some time.

> But at the same time, western companies send their manufacturing to Asia due to lower costs despite the lax labor and environmental regulations in those countries.

Consumers have proven that they are willing to let such things slide to maintain their own convenience time and time again, your example included. I'm a staunch capitalist, but I also recognize that the market will only correct when the offense makes people uncomfortable enough to take action and stop partaking in a given product or service.

And again, not hostile to you. Only hostile to your argument. I'd be happy if you had an argument that could change my mind, as my own view is quite cynical, and not something I find comfort in in the least.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#123

Post by 40acres »

In the short term, moving to China is always the right move, the labor is cheaper, the regulation is lighter, the market is gigantic and the middle class is growing every day.

In the long term, I believe we are mortgaging our future. Not only is China ripping off IP but companies like Apple who try to be "woke" have no buisness advocating for equality at home while doing buisness with a nation that has imprisoned thousands of religious minorities in re-education camps.

America's approach to China is that of an overconfident fiancee who thinks once they're married they will change their partners ways. It rarely works out.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#124

Post by namirez »

Rooster61 wrote: post #122
namirez wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ignore your first paragraph since it sounds hostile. As for the rest, obviously, free market has a self-correcting mechanism. Corporations need consumers so they cannot simply "run afoul of basic human rights" as you said or they get a pushback from the populace. But at the same time, western companies send their manufacturing to Asia due to lower costs despite the lax labor and environmental regulations in those c…

I didn't say it was controversial, I think your statement that companies not having any chance of surviving due to stepping on human rights issues is flatly and verifiably wrong. That's evidenced by my second point that the vast majority of the most powerful corporations on Earth can and do infringe on said rights, and have done so for quite some time. > But at the same time, western companies send their manufacturin…

I think it's been a misunderstanding, because I agree with what you just said.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#125

Post by asark »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #29

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

There were basically three things that made Macbooks very appealing to developers before:

1) Very good hardware at a not-huge markup when compared apples-to-apples (haha) with Wintel hardware.

2) Unixy OS with outstanding Just Works but it's not your fault should it fail to Just Work, as in "ugh Tom's laptop won't connect to the projector again, because he insists on running Linux."

3) Excellent pick-up-and-go, thanks to a good, if not comprehensive, port selection, the best touchpad in the industry by a long shot and the only one I've ever used that doesn't make me start looking around the room for a mouse or feel like I need to keep one in my laptop bag, and battery life much better than the typical "get you from one outlet to another" of many (especially budget and midrange) Windows devices, while also being (yeah, yeah) thin and light. You could just grab your laptop and go, and be ready for most things, for most of a workday, no power cord, no mouse, no anything.

The 1st and 3rd of these have suffered a lot lately, with large price hikes putting them solidly back in the "LOL WUT?" pricing territory they periodically flirt with, and 3 thanks to #DongleLife making it pretty much impossible to plug anything "in the wild" into a Macbook at all without an adapter, and the keyboard going from good-enough to fairly-crappy. I'm hoping for fixes to some of the problems and for some of the "...and all those improvements, and we're also dropping the price $200!" announcements they did pretty regularly there for a while, because man, I still don't see any real competition for them out there, despite their missteps.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#126

Post by TallGuyShort »

lioeters wrote: post #93
TallGuyShort wrote: post #29

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

> Macbook Pros have passed their peak As someone who has used a number of Mac(book)s for years, I agree with this general (or a vocal minority's) consensus. It's a beautiful machine: great OS, hardware integration is (mostly) top notch, and a lot of pro-grade hard/software for multimedia production are only available on the Mac. And yet, the 2013 Macbook Pro (maxed out beyond recommended specs) is the last Apple-buil…

Totally tangential rant here, but when I've had family or close friends (the kind who would come to me for free tech support and who I would generally indulge) ask me for recommendations, I've told them that I don't know Mac products well enough to recommend / recommend against them, but that if they get iOS or Macs, I simply won't be in a position to help them. Almost invariably they get the Apple device, need help, can't get it from Apple, and come back to me. Can't stand it. And if I ever have a glitch they'll say, "but Apple stuff just works..."

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#127

Post by whatshisface »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #100
whatshisface wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desperately trying to keep stability isn't evidence of stability, it's evidence that the leadership thinks they aren't stable.

The only thing in your statement that provides evidence of instability is your arbitrary inclusion of the adjective "desperately" to describe China's actions. All governments work towards stability in their own ways. I don't see desperation in Chinese strategy, but I do see a lot of energy.

>I do see a lot of energy

You are free to use any word to describe it, you could also call it "expense." China is spending time and energy on suppressing dissent proportional to their fear of their own people. The CCP has decided that the risk of being deposed is high enough to justify the cost and effort required to implement all of those nightmarish schemes.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#128

Post by asnack »

looeee wrote: post #112
api wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're a public company owned by their shareholders. This isn't their job. What it will take is for the US and other countries to start prioritizing human rights in trade negotiations.

What it will take is for the US to start prioritizing human rights, at all? I mean, they're currently running concentration camps for children at the Mexican border, in their own country. It would be a bit rich if they start telling other countries what to do regarding human rights before fixing their own issues.

This is a quality shitHNsays post. Thanks for the chuckle.

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#129

Post by lol_jono »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #29

For years I've been very happy, productive, and at times stubbornly loyal on my Linux / Lenovo setup, but it seems that so many of my colleagues have embraced Mac that it's gotten harder and harder to not be on the bandwagon. I recently hit the point of deciding maybe I should just have a Mac, but I seem to have done so after Macbook Pros have passed their peak. I don't follow consumer hardware trends much, so what d…

Consider the Thinkpad X1 Carbon lineup or the model up, the Thinkpad P1

Re: Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China

#130

Post by tnolet »

muzani wrote: post #32
gentran wrote: post #21

Back in the day, my international economics professor told me corporations will set up, and base their business out of the countries that they see as the most stable. Because of this, it scares me when I see headlines like this, even though it is only production. If anyone has a counterpoint to what he said, I am very interested in hearing it

Why do you say China is unstable? The US is talking about starting a war, had government shutdown issues recently, and has a president that is abrasive on foreign affairs. UK is dealing with brexit. China may have the issue with HK recently, but to an outsider, they look more stable. Of course, something like Japan or Australia seems better, but China isn't a terrible choice.

China is stable because it is a totalitarian dictatorship that jails critics, has no free press and no real elections.
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