Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

681–690 of 872 posts

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#681

Post by slantyyz »

oliveshell wrote: post #675
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, that's not a dongle, that's an SD card reader. A dongle would adapt a USB-A reader's plug to a USB-C plug. Second, this is a step forward. Previously, people who didn't need to carry around SD card readers had to, in the form of bulkier laptops with smaller batteries. Now, only folks who need readers have to carry them around. That's a win.

I wish everybody who buys a new MacBook Pro all the best, and I hope they enjoy it. I just won’t be getting one. (The card reader was just the icing on the cake; the unreliable keyboard and failure-prone backlight ribbon cable are the main reasons I won’t buy one.) Ultrabooks exist for a reason, and my personal opinion is that it’s a bummer that the “pro“ offering is less capable and more annoying to use for media ed…

Even though my last Mac, the early 2011 15" Macbook Pro, was a complete lemon in terms of execution (GPU overheating issues), I loved that design and form factor. It had all the ports I wanted, plus the end-user expandability. At one point I popped out the optical and stuck in a second SSD.

Apple didn't handle the recall for the 2011 MBP problems very well.

This was incredibly problematic for me, considering Apple's fantastic reputation for customer support. After that experience, I basically went back to Windows, and the transition was surprisingly smooth.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#682

Post by xxs »

robinmayfair wrote: post #660
oliveshell wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I want to get 10 GB of RAW photos onto my 2013 MacBook Pro, I just pop the SD card out of the camera and into the laptop. Transfer is done in about a minute or two. No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. That’s a step backwards.

“Full Stop” is always a good argument. I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have. Sure, internal card readers were nice. But they’re gone from Apple now. Really not sure why people keep talking about this.

>I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have.

an extremely and misguided guarantee - any usb 3.1 reader is likely to be similar/same

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#683

Post by gridlockd »

oliveshell wrote: post #656
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What dongle epidemic? A USB-C version of every important cord or connector has existed for _years_. Anyone who still has dongles is choosing them.

If I want to get 10 GB of RAW photos onto my 2013 MacBook Pro, I just pop the SD card out of the camera and into the laptop. Transfer is done in about a minute or two. No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. That’s a step backwards.

> No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop.

So you go out and buy a dongle. Or you just connect the Camera with a cable and you don't have to fiddle with the tiny SD card.

I personally never use SD cards, or any other flash cards. I never use the ethernet jack on a laptop. I very rarely use thumbdrives or other USB devices. I also don't use serial out, or PCMCIA, or compact discs, all of which still conceivably are necessary for some users.

On the other hand, I always need an adapter for video out, because it's either VGA or HDMI or even DVI.

So I go out and buy a dongle. I'm glad that the ports on my laptop is not the superset of all things anyone might need on there.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#684

Post by gridlockd »

xxs wrote: post #679
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, that's not a dongle, that's an SD card reader. A dongle would adapt a USB-A reader's plug to a USB-C plug. Second, this is a step forward. Previously, people who didn't need to carry around SD card readers had to, in the form of bulkier laptops with smaller batteries. Now, only folks who need readers have to carry them around. That's a win.

Dongles have existed long before USB-C (and even A). Pretty much 'a small thingie' that has to be attached to a computer for the latter to carry some specific task. Hence, a card reader fits the dongle definition and it should be part of any laptop... There used be dongles that served copyright protection.

> Hence, a card reader fits the dongle definition and it should be part of any laptop...

Which card reader? SD? Micro SD? SD and Micro SD? Any of the half-dozen other standards that some cameras still use?

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#685

Post by btbuildem »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #655
AimForTheBushes wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gorgeous and mostly user-friendly products, but slightly too caught up in their own cleverness instead of the actual needs of real users. This is so true. Hence the dongle epidemic.

What dongle epidemic? A USB-C version of every important cord or connector has existed for _years_. Anyone who still has dongles is choosing them.

You serious? My old macbook had a port for everything I needed. My new one has a grand total TWO usb-c ports, and that's supposed to suffice. Madness.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#686

Post by gridlockd »

xxs wrote: post #682
robinmayfair wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Full Stop” is always a good argument. I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have. Sure, internal card readers were nice. But they’re gone from Apple now. Really not sure why people keep talking about this.

>I have a USB-C card reader which I guarantee you is faster than the one you have. an extremely and misguided guarantee - any usb 3.1 reader is likely to be similar/same

Perhaps he's alluding to the fact that a lot of laptops have had USB2 card readers internally but USB 3 ports going out.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#687

Post by petilon »

UIZealot wrote: post #401
panopticon wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems pretty hyperbolic, especially considering that Nielsen says flat designs are on the right track. To quote, "Early pseudo-3D GUIs and Steve-Jobs-esque skeuomorphism often produced heavy, clunky interfaces. Scaling back from those excesses is good for usability. But removing visual distinctions to produce fully flat designs with no signifiers can be an equally bad extreme. Flat 2.0 provides an opportunity fo…

The biggest ding they could come up with against skeuomorphism is "heavy, clunky"? Skeuomorphic UIs maybe "heavy" and "clunky", but they were also beautiful, whimsical, and fun ! They brought me joy each time I use them. Flat design, in contrast, is soulless and depressing. God I miss the Steve Jobs era! Apple could've been the beacon of light amongst darkness, like it used to be. But his death, and the subsequent be…

EVERYTHING beautiful is skeuomorphic. The page turn in iBooks, page curl in maps, cover flow, the shred animation in older versions of Passbook, the date picker in iOS 6, rotating settings gear (when updating iOS 6), the Time Machine interface in older versions of OS X, photo borders and shadows in older versions of iWorks documents, etc.

This is not surprising, because our sense of beauty comes from the physical world.

So what is the problem with skeuomorphism?

Tech enthusiasts would like their phones to look like something from the future, not something from the past. But ordinary everyday people prefer for it to look like things they are already familiar with, or can relate to.

Tech enthusiasts worry that the skeuomorphism was getting totally out of hand, particularly where the UI metaphor started limiting functionality (e.g. an address database that's limited to what a Rolodex can do, rather than exploiting what is possible with a computer). But this is not really true. For example, iBooks has instant search, something only possible with a computer.

Some people point out that many skeuomorphic elements reference things that a large part of Apple's audience hasn't used in a long time, if ever. True, but here's the thing: It doesn't matter whether the user has ever seen a reel-to-reel tape. What matters is whether the visuals depict a physical object that the user can model in his mind. If it is too abstract (that's the opposite of physical) then non-tech-enthusiast users will find it hard to intuit.

Some people say skeuomorphism looks tacky. This is partly true. Skeuomorphism is hard to do. When done poorly it does look tacky. But when done well it looks very beautiful.

By removing all skeuomorphism Apple threw the baby out with the bathwater.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#688

Post by Eric_WVGG »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #664
oliveshell wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I want to get 10 GB of RAW photos onto my 2013 MacBook Pro, I just pop the SD card out of the camera and into the laptop. Transfer is done in about a minute or two. No SD card reader means the new MBP just couldn’t do this without dongles, full stop. That’s a step backwards.

First, that's not a dongle, that's an SD card reader. A dongle would adapt a USB-A reader's plug to a USB-C plug. Second, this is a step forward. Previously, people who didn't need to carry around SD card readers had to, in the form of bulkier laptops with smaller batteries. Now, only folks who need readers have to carry them around. That's a win.

I knew defining a dongle would bring out the pedants, and that makes me very happy, but I think the real point is being overlooked here.

Folks who want an SD card reader or HDMI should carry around SD card readers and HDMI cables. People who don't want those things shouldn't have to carry them around.

I modernized all my accessories years ago. USB-C is all I or, I would argue, nearly anyone needs. I'm truly sorry that your job requires you to carry a little extra gear, but it's not my job, so don't burden me with it. (If you disagree, then explain why the MBP shouldn't have compact flash, micro SD, etc.)

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#689

Post by bin0 »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #655
AimForTheBushes wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gorgeous and mostly user-friendly products, but slightly too caught up in their own cleverness instead of the actual needs of real users. This is so true. Hence the dongle epidemic.

What dongle epidemic? A USB-C version of every important cord or connector has existed for _years_. Anyone who still has dongles is choosing them.

Ridiculous. All my old flash drives (and my new ones) are usb-a, because it is still widespread and compatibility is important (I need to be able to connect to more than my one laptop). Ethernet is still faster, and can be necessary. Very few monitors have actual USB-C connectors. Same with peripherals.

USB-C-all-the-things is great if you live in the valley environment of shiny new every thing; not so much if you have to deal with all the stuff that all ready exists.

Also, have you considered the amount of e-waste produced by this change-over?

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#690

Post by foldr »

slantyyz wrote: post #673
foldr wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>community of unrealistic, brainwashed, tribalist fans who lack perspective and criticism Shrug. I prefer MacBooks because the trackpads are better, and trackpad usability is more important to me than the other stuff.

I'm a mouse user (who actually really liked both the much maligned mighty mouse and magic mouse), but when it came to track pads, I hated that Apple didn't have physical buttons for the trackpad. My hand eye coordination on trackpads has never been great (and I'm not getting any younger), and I've always had issues with taps as clicks. I've since switched back to Windows, and it drives me nuts that all the PC laptops…

The haptic trackpads on the newer macbooks are perfect for this. You can click anywhere on the pad and the amount of pressure required is exactly the same. It's not tap to click, because you need to actually press down for a click to register.
Post reply on HN