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Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

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Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#291

Post by atombender »

pier25 wrote: post #285
atombender wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like that phrase, "tyranny of design". It implies design is just one side of a product. But design is everything . It is both form and function. A product that has great visual design is still a failure if the functional design is bad. A great designer is holistic and will be able to bring form and function into harmony.. While I don't have the inside scoop on how Jonathan Ive works, my impression is that he'…

I guess parent poster actually meant the tyranny of aesthetics.

Indeed, and I don't like that "design" is thrown around as a synonym for aesthetics.

For a good book about what design is: The Design of Everyday Things by Donald Norman [1].

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expand...

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#292

Post by atombender »

sytelus wrote: post #283
atombender wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like that phrase, "tyranny of design". It implies design is just one side of a product. But design is everything . It is both form and function. A product that has great visual design is still a failure if the functional design is bad. A great designer is holistic and will be able to bring form and function into harmony.. While I don't have the inside scoop on how Jonathan Ive works, my impression is that he'…

The iPhone has one of the most slippery surfaces of almost all objects I own. It looks great in photos and ad videos but completely incompatible to the goal of safely holding it in the human hand. Things have became so bad with iPhone XS that I have never seen anyone using it without some ugly sleeve. If anyone has dared not using case/sleeve, they would experience heart wrenching drop out of hand within their first…

No, that's definitely bad design. The thing is like a bar of soap.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#293

Post by dpkonofa »

mstade wrote: post #94
jedberg wrote: post #42

Given his penchant for thinness over function, I hope this means we can have a thicker pro laptop again, with all the ports back and a more robust keyboard.

It’d be interesting to see the results of a survey on this I think, I and I know many of my peers are of the exact opposite opinion. I like the move to usb-c, I like the new keyboard, I don’t mind (but also don’t really use) the Touch Bar but I can’t live without Touch ID at this point. The big trackpad is magical to me, and the thickness and weight of the 13” is just right. I have an older MBP as well, 2013 maybe, a…

I'm the same way and most of the people I know IRL are the same way. It seems like it's only online that I hear people complain about the keyboard and the lack of ports. The biggest complaint online that I see is the physical escape key (and I'm even a developer and don't care about it) and I have yet to meet a single person who has that complaint.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#294

Post by steve19 »

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #83

Form does not end in the enclosure. He brought beauty to computing, but dongles are his legacy. Personally I hope his client sends him way less work than he’s anticipating.

I don't wish him bad but I am really hoping I will finally be able to upgrade my MacBook pro with a model that has a good keyboard and some extra ports.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#295

Post by flensortow »

mstade wrote: post #94
jedberg wrote: post #42

Given his penchant for thinness over function, I hope this means we can have a thicker pro laptop again, with all the ports back and a more robust keyboard.

It’d be interesting to see the results of a survey on this I think, I and I know many of my peers are of the exact opposite opinion. I like the move to usb-c, I like the new keyboard, I don’t mind (but also don’t really use) the Touch Bar but I can’t live without Touch ID at this point. The big trackpad is magical to me, and the thickness and weight of the 13” is just right. I have an older MBP as well, 2013 maybe, a…

I would like to see exactly zero regression from the current design.

I think there is a very tiny but vocal minority, particularly in the tech community, who have issues with it. Most people have few complaints if you are talking about the most recent keyboard. It may still have some room for improvement but the last couple generations of butterfly keyboard have improved each step of the way.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#296

Post by mstade »

dsego wrote: post #260
bradknowles wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, on the power side of the equation, I have come to understand why they chose to go the direction they did. With the previous generation of MagSafe/MagSafe II power supplies, if the cable gets frayed, you have to replace the entire power supply. If the MagSafe connector gets hosed, you have to replace the entire power supply. Basically, if anything goes wrong beyond the AC input side, you have to replace the whole…

Funny how other laptops (and I've owned PC laptops and macbooks) have cables that don't fray. Only Apple's old magsafe cable has that fine rubbery material that disintegrates with time, and no strain relief on the connector.

Happens all the time with any cables really. I've had many cables succumb to the good ol' lemme just adjust may chair right over your cable there type situations. Particularly when you have to run the cable to an awkwardly placed outlet.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#297

Post by sytelus »

darkpuma wrote: post #193
fumar wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I travel frequently for work. I like having a pro machine that is light and thin. I am okay with compromises, but understand that the target audience feels differently. I believe my Macbook Pro goes more places than before due to the compactness. That includes using python, photo, design, and general office work.

Few people travel frequently, but I bet as you go higher and higher up the food chain at Apple, you find more and more frequent travelers in the social circles of those Apple employees. This might explain the apparent overemphasis on thinness.

This is an interesting point. There are many CVP-levels who either rarely use their own product or only use parts that might be relevant for marketing demo. The result is that lot of other parts that is actually used by customers goes unimproved for years on. You can tell how good the leader of a product is by exploring its parts outside of marketing demos.

Re: Jony Ive to form independent design company with Apple as client

#299

Post by CountSessine »

jeremyjh wrote: post #279
CountSessine wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YMMV I guess, but I work as a programmer at a company where all the programmers carry these around and spend their whole days in emacs or tmux+vim. There are about a hundred of us in our local office. I haven’t found anyone who doesn’t hate this thing, and it all comes down to that stupid butterfly keyboard. We’re a company of super-efficient touch typists, and the 2015 MacBook pros with their scissor switches are co…

Do you really have a lot of programmers typing on a laptop keyboard for much of the day? That would seem really strange to me. No laptop keyboard is good compared to a good mechanical, or really any external keyboard. I have one of these pros and I type on it a fair bit because I commute on the bus and I agree its not the best...but at the office I have proper equipment for doing programming work.

Yes!

I'm typing on my 2015 MBP right now! It's not as good as a blue-switch or Alps mechanical keyboard, but it's pretty damn good!

Just looking around though, I can see that the majority of external-keyboard users here in the office are using 2016-and-later 4th gen MBPs. The keyboard is just bad enough to mandate rather than encourage external keyboard use.

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