Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

topic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 57 posts

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#31

Post by moate »

yters wrote: post #17
mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

But if it is 'rap music' violence, madness, drug use, rape, etc. are fine, because if you say otherwise you are racist. Maybe it is racist to not hold all human beings to the same standard of decency?

Cool strawman mate. There's plenty of people who call out rap's shortcomings. Some of them are black. You can do it without being called a racist, I swear.

I don't know why people are calling you a racist, but I have some theories...

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#33

Post by yters »

eric_the_read wrote: post #27
yters wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the difference. Rap music seems to go hand in hand with the subculture. If it wasn't glamorized, I doubt it'd exist, at least to the degree it does. Same with punk. If the punk lifestyle was not glamorized through the music, then the punk subculture would not exist. My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard, because in effect we are saying those we do not hold account…

Chap-hop star Mr B, The Gentleman Rhymer, wrote "Hip-Hop Was To Blame, After All", specifically addressing this attitude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkES4anCYOw

Hip hop is different than rap. Rap as a genre tends to glorify the violence, etc. Hip hop tends to glorify a particular culture. Of the latter I am a fan. Of the former, not very much, mostly because it has become pretty boring and repetitive and has lost the creativity, clever wordplay and fun rhythm. Instead, it just substitutes sex, drugs and violence to make up for lack of substance, and sells out the African American community for the entertainment of white rich kids.

That being said, a few of the newer rappers do have some poetic things to say.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#34

Post by mistrial9 »

noonespecial wrote: post #30
mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

Or maybe they're just violent and mad so they sing about it.

yes! I dont think many of these other "outraged" commentators have been sucker-punched or tripped hard at a Black Flag show !! its a complicated thing here, psychological mirror and projection (in the psycho-analytic sense), reinforcement in art, social peer pressures, set and setting, permission by default, enabling behaviors .. many factors.

For anyone who lives freedom (and survives it), it is all the more important to see clearly what is happening in the chains of cause-and-effect, dont you think? instead of romanticizing things, clinging to pure outrage or self-righteous statements, attacking a messenger, etc..

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#35

Post by yters »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #26
yters wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the difference. Rap music seems to go hand in hand with the subculture. If it wasn't glamorized, I doubt it'd exist, at least to the degree it does. Same with punk. If the punk lifestyle was not glamorized through the music, then the punk subculture would not exist. My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard, because in effect we are saying those we do not hold account…

You are abysmally misinformed on the history of hip hop. >My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard, Ah, in that case you agree that _every_ American slaveowner in the South was a bad, immoral, evil person, right? Same goes for all Germans in WWII.

Yes...does any sane person today think slave owners and nazis were on the correct side of morality?

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#36

Post by jyrkesh »

Isamu wrote: post #11

Just yesterday out of nostalgia I downloaded some classic songs by X - Los Angeles, Under the Big Black Sun, etc. Fun shows! I don't have any of my old vinyl anymore. Anybody here still holding onto your old albums?

X was my one of my dad's favorites growing up in LA, and I got to see them a couple years ago at The Fillmore with him and my brothers. Was a very good time, glad they're still out touring here and there.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#37

Post by jyrkesh »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #23
mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

I don't remember punk lyrics focusing on drugs and violence any more than mainstream rock did. (Which, admittedly, was also blamed for those things.) Which bands/songs are you thinking of? I'm assuming you have some in mind, and aren't just parroting stereotypes? Also, are you sure you've got the cause-and-effect right way 'round? Delinquents do seem to like punk, but that doesn't mean that punk made them delinquent.

The way I read his comment, the music "invokes" the violence via live shows. If you've ever been to a punk show, there's a lot of violence going on in the audience/pit. I don't think it's a crazy leap to say that people who enjoy beating the crap out of each other in a sweaty pit might be disproportionately inclined towards beating people up outside that pit.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#38

Post by setzamora »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #23
mistrial9 wrote: post #16

the punks were certainly the most health-toxic sub-culture in post-hippy California.. definitely early pain-killer abusers, plus glue or extreme alcohol, etc. not uncommon to hear of deaths, treachery or jail.. SF Fab-Mab ruler Dirk was later found to be sexually using adolescents pretty regularly .. lead singer of Fang on America's Most Wanted national TV for killing a girl over heroin, things like that .. freedom h…

I don't remember punk lyrics focusing on drugs and violence any more than mainstream rock did. (Which, admittedly, was also blamed for those things.) Which bands/songs are you thinking of? I'm assuming you have some in mind, and aren't just parroting stereotypes? Also, are you sure you've got the cause-and-effect right way 'round? Delinquents do seem to like punk, but that doesn't mean that punk made them delinquent.

Reminds me of the song by Lyte Funky Ones (LFO)

New kids on the block had a bunch of hits Chinese food makes me sick And I think it's fly When girls stop by For the summer For the summer

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#39

Post by PhasmaFelis »

jyrkesh wrote: post #37
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't remember punk lyrics focusing on drugs and violence any more than mainstream rock did. (Which, admittedly, was also blamed for those things.) Which bands/songs are you thinking of? I'm assuming you have some in mind, and aren't just parroting stereotypes? Also, are you sure you've got the cause-and-effect right way 'round? Delinquents do seem to like punk, but that doesn't mean that punk made them delinquent.

The way I read his comment, the music "invokes" the violence via live shows. If you've ever been to a punk show, there's a lot of violence going on in the audience/pit. I don't think it's a crazy leap to say that people who enjoy beating the crap out of each other in a sweaty pit might be disproportionately inclined towards beating people up outside that pit.

Huh, you think that's it? They're actually saying "mosh pits make you a violent druggie"?

That's...actually even sillier, honestly. I fuckin' loved a good mosh when I was a teen, and I was a kid who never, ever started a fight, and froze up when someone started one with me. I know the pit looks like a brawl, but at every show I went to it was more like a contact sport with no points where everyone wins. If someone fell down, everyone who saw it gathered to help them up and keep folks from tripping until they were back on their feet.

One time a flailing dude caught me in the face with an elbow so hard I staggered and saw stars. He immediately stopped, grabbed my shoulders, and yelled, "dude, are you okay?" He waited for me to nod before he smiled and went back to doing his thing. It was all good.

I know there's guys out there who jump in the pit throwing fists. I can't speak for every scene, but where I come from those guys got shoved out of the pit until they got the point. It's not about winning.

Re: How Chinese Food Fueled the Rise of California Punk

#40

Post by PhasmaFelis »

yters wrote: post #21
kjeetgill wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference is that the Punk subculture sprung up around the music, where much of the 'rap music' was reflective (exaggerated and glamorized) of an existing situation and subculture. I think you can still argue that violent rap music incites or inspires crime though. I think you can generally criticize effects, but you skirt the line with racism when you start projecting that too broadly.

I don't see the difference. Rap music seems to go hand in hand with the subculture. If it wasn't glamorized, I doubt it'd exist, at least to the degree it does. Same with punk. If the punk lifestyle was not glamorized through the music, then the punk subculture would not exist. My point is that it is racist to not hold all people to the same moral standard, because in effect we are saying those we do not hold account…

If you don't even know the difference between gangsta rap and rap in general, I'm not sure you're qualified to discuss the point.
Post reply on HN