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Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

wired.com

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Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#31

Post by jimktrains2 »

Stratoscope wrote: post #22
kayfox wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be a violation if it involved a business transaction that was not related to ham radio equipment. Buying, selling and trading equipment related to ham radio is the only exception to the rule against business transactions that I am aware of.

The exception you're referring to is this one in Part 97.113 (3), which is part of a list of prohibited communications: (3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer. Amateur operators may, however, notify other amateur operators of the availability for sale or trade of apparatus normally used in an amateur station, pro…

Especially if it was a low value transaction or a transaction between two accounts held by the same person, they could argue it falls under experimentation, I guess?

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#32

Post by ihuman »

rolltiide wrote: post #30
ihuman wrote: post #6

I don't think this is allowed under USA Amateur radio rules. > §97.113 Prohibited transmissions. > (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules ; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity related to program production or news gathering for broadcasting purposes, except that commu…

Or else what?

If you're a registered ham, the FCC has your address, so they can fine you or revoke the license.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#33

Post by jimktrains2 »

jtms wrote: post #28
arnoooooo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your first comment, most ham radio rules are international.

I know next to nothing about ham radio, but I’m curious... who would enforce the rules at an international level?

Each individual country is expected to enforce the rules on its own citizens. The FCC does so here in the US. If I remember right, but am on my phone, there are countries that are not party to the international rules (or don't have agreements with the us? I'm fuzzy) and (us) hams are not supposed to deliberately contact operators in those countries.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#34

Post by jimktrains2 »

wbl wrote: post #29
jimktrains2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> §97.111 Authorized transmissions. > (b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications: > (1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station; > (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations; > (3) Telecommand; > (4) Transmissions necessa…

But the information bulletins must be on the topic of amateur radio: Definition in 97.3.

True. I forgot to cross reference the definitions.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#35

Post by reshie »

nyolfen wrote: post #19
reshie wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cypher is encryption and punk in context means outside the box. not necessarily a criminal or outlaw.

>Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments.

to each their own. know the difference.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#36

Post by robear »

jtms wrote: post #28
arnoooooo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with your first comment, most ham radio rules are international.

I know next to nothing about ham radio, but I’m curious... who would enforce the rules at an international level?

The International Telecommunication Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Telecommunicatio... the body that governs these things at the international level.

Individual countries implement decisions taken at the ITU through laws and policy. Individual countries take care of enforcement. For instance, in the USA, that would be the FCC.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#38

Post by zrobotics »

nvk wrote: post #37

I was the one who made the first transmission mentioned on the article. AMA https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1101518677910810624 (and this one precedes that one https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1095354354289135617 )

Ok, I'll bite: mind addressing the legality issues many of the other commenter have brought up? Because this looks like a great way to get a FCC fine.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#39

Post by nvk »

zrobotics wrote: post #38
nvk wrote: post #37

I was the one who made the first transmission mentioned on the article. AMA https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1101518677910810624 (and this one precedes that one https://twitter.com/nvk/status/1095354354289135617 )

Ok, I'll bite: mind addressing the legality issues many of the other commenter have brought up? Because this looks like a great way to get a FCC fine.

1. I'm not in the USA and i'm licensed. You could say the ITU may take issue.

2. The spirit of the law is in regards to actual financial interest, this were meaningless amounts and also testnet.

3. Transactions were not actually done over Ham, the transaction data was relayed over ham and broadcasted via internet. (long history of HAM 3rd party message relay).

4. No encrypted messages were transmitted. (and encryption is allowed as long as the cypher is public)

5. The spirit of ham is technical experimentation.

6. These tests were intended for use in countries where the laws don't matter and or in emergencies. In case of emergency it would be allowed to make financial transactions and/or send encrypted messages.

I feel like most rhetoric around that is usual internet-lawyering. If Wired care to contact for comment there would have been some context added.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#40

Post by tuxxy »

ihuman wrote: post #6

I don't think this is allowed under USA Amateur radio rules. > §97.113 Prohibited transmissions. > (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules ; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity related to program production or news gathering for broadcasting purposes, except that commu…

Why are hams the closest thing to the equivalent of tech tattle-tales?

Any time I see someone doing something neat and legally grey on radio, some ham operator has to come in, quote their understanding of the law, and chastise everyone. What's the point? Do they get to feel some sense of authority and privilege that the rest of the nerd world don't for a few minutes?

Just let people do cool stuff and don't snitch.

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