Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio • Hacker News Board

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#11

Post by sciurus » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

ignaloidas wrote: post #9

sciurus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadcasts are prohibited in ham radio. For the US, see https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=1a361a6eb3d1594e6a... > (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules;

>>>Private messages (...) are prohibited in Ham Radio > Broadcasts are also prohibited in ham radio. Wait what? Isn't any message either broadcast or private?

No, it's either one-way or two-way. One-way is usually prohibited except in a few case, two-way is usually fine unless it violates one of the prohibitions like encryption. Your two-way communications using ham radio are public, not private.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#12

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

ignaloidas wrote: post #9

sciurus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadcasts are prohibited in ham radio. For the US, see https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=1a361a6eb3d1594e6a... > (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules;

>>>Private messages (...) are prohibited in Ham Radio > Broadcasts are also prohibited in ham radio. Wait what? Isn't any message either broadcast or private?

A two-way conversation that involves short periods of what's technically "broadcasting" is very different from "tune in at 10pm to hear me talk for an hour".

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#13

Post by dunham » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

ignaloidas wrote: post #9

sciurus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broadcasts are prohibited in ham radio. For the US, see https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=1a361a6eb3d1594e6a... > (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules;

>>>Private messages (...) are prohibited in Ham Radio > Broadcasts are also prohibited in ham radio. Wait what? Isn't any message either broadcast or private?

It seems broadcasting is prohibited, but broadcasting is defined as:

> (10) Broadcasting. Transmissions intended for reception by the general public, either direct or relayed.

Edit: quote is take from "Definitions" section of sciurus link.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#14

Post by reshie » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:29 PM UTC

Lambdanaut wrote: post #10

ihuman wrote: post #6

I don't think this is allowed under USA Amateur radio rules. > §97.113 Prohibited transmissions. > (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules ; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity related to program production or news gathering for broadcasting purposes, except that commu…

Well it wouldn't be cyberpunk without breaking a few rules.

cypher is encryption and punk in context means outside the box. not necessarily a criminal or outlaw.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#15

Post by _rrnv » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

I find it funny that so often so many commenters on "Hacker" News are terrified of breaking the rules... Also, there's plenty of world outside of USA.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#16

Post by Stratoscope » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

Much of the article is about Brian Goss's setup. Goss is not using ham radio. He is receiving satellite broadcasts and re-transmitting them with a goTenna device into the goTenna mesh network.

goTenna is a Part 15 (unlicensed) device, like a Wi-Fi router or Bluetooth device. It does not transmit on Amateur Radio frequencies. Unless I missed something, there is no connection with ham radio here.

The article also mentions how Elaine Ou sent a Lightning payment over the 40 meter amateur radio band. This may have been a violation of the Part 97 Amateur Radio regulations, as noted by other commenters.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#17

Post by jimktrains2 » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

ihuman wrote: post #6

I don't think this is allowed under USA Amateur radio rules. > §97.113 Prohibited transmissions. > (b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way communications except as specifically provided in these rules ; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity related to program production or news gathering for broadcasting purposes, except that commu…

> §97.111 Authorized transmissions.

> (b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically authorized elsewhere in this part, an amateur station may transmit the following types of one-way communications:

> (1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the station;

> (2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way communications with other stations;

> (3) Telecommand;

> (4) Transmissions necessary to providing emergency communications;

> (5) Transmissions necessary to assisting persons learning, or improving proficiency in, the international Morse code; and

> (6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins.

> (7) Transmissions of telemetry.

It may fall under "Transmissions necessary to disseminate information bulletins."

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#18

Post by arnoooooo » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

_rrnv wrote: post #15

I find it funny that so often so many commenters on "Hacker" News are terrified of breaking the rules... Also, there's plenty of world outside of USA.

While I agree with your first comment, most ham radio rules are international.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#19

Post by nyolfen » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

reshie wrote: post #14

Lambdanaut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it wouldn't be cyberpunk without breaking a few rules.

cypher is encryption and punk in context means outside the box. not necessarily a criminal or outlaw.

>Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero knowledge, reputations, information markets, black markets, collapse of governments.

Re: Cypherpunks Tapping Bitcoin via Ham Radio

#20

Post by kayfox » Thu, Jun 27, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

Stratoscope wrote: post #16

Much of the article is about Brian Goss's setup. Goss is not using ham radio. He is receiving satellite broadcasts and re-transmitting them with a goTenna device into the goTenna mesh network. goTenna is a Part 15 (unlicensed) device, like a Wi-Fi router or Bluetooth device. It does not transmit on Amateur Radio frequencies. Unless I missed something, there is no connection with ham radio here. The article also menti…

It may be a violation if it involved a business transaction that was not related to ham radio equipment. Buying, selling and trading equipment related to ham radio is the only exception to the rule against business transactions that I am aware of.