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“I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

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Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#111

Post by ksec »

gexla wrote: post #77
duxup wrote: post #35

I've been lucky enough to know some US state level politicians for quite some time, not major figures, but folks who did it most of their life (while doing other things too) and were successful at it. I often got the felling that they did that thing, and even pushed the issues they did... because they were successful at it and it fit their personality. Most were not idealists despite what they said IMO, I suspect man…

> Most were not idealists despite what they said IMO, I suspect many if pressed to change their positions did not really care about the issues outside of a couple topics at most (and due to the winds of change in US politics most actually supported surprisingly different issues over time). They represent the views of the people who vote. Those views change over time. This is much like me doing what my employer asks f…

>This is much like me doing what my employer asks for, despite my own preferences. It's not our views which are important, but rather the ability to execute for those we are working for.

Unfortunately that is still something I have trouble with. From Political Correctness, to taking the blame when we ( I ) have advices against such actions when their view doesn't work.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#112

Post by raxxorrax »

andy_ppp wrote: post #53

In some horrendous nihilistic way we seem to get the politicians we deserve. Hopefully Boris and Trump are the end of this mess and after they screw everything we get something better, but I fear it’s just the start. It really does feel like we live in the hunger games right now.

I don't really see that much of a difference to be honest. From a cynical perspective it just seems that Trump and Johnson are more honest (relative metric!!) and therefore feel more obnoxious. I don't know Johnson, but his demeanor seems calculated.

After a decade of hyper sensitive terror paranoia, subsequent charades and fake makeup-morality, it can actually feel refreshing. The honest statesman seems nearly deprecated today. This is important since I believe the success of both is a direct consequence of past governance.

But overall I don't think that much has really changed for most people. Maybe some offices took a little bit of damage, but I don't see that in a purely negative light. Civil liberties will probably suffer again, but that seems to be en vogue anyway.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#113

Post by pcrh »

hardlianotion wrote: post #103
probably_wrong wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a first hand account from a former member of his staff, in an article aptly titled "George W. Bush is smarter than you": https://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/

Tony Blair claimed that George Bush was a very smart guy

People call their dogs or horses smart as well. It's a view that often reflects congeniality and agreement rather an objective assessment of intelligence.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#114

Post by tomohawk »

magpi3 wrote: post #109
dr_dshiv wrote: post #108

This was a fun read. My take is that politicians showing up to random award ceremonies and giving a canned speech is a normal situation, though. That he can give a canned speech in a way that seems self-deprecating and authentic, in order to entertain and connect with the audience, is impressive. I can understand why someone would feel that this is a form of lying. He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating cro…

> He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating crowds. My concern is the lack of people like this who share my own politics. The creepy part for me was not the canned speech. It was the attempt to manipulate the people at his table. The last minute arrival, the shock at finding he is the speaker, forgetting his speech at the table... I would also feel like I am watching a fraud

Chances are, if you are watching a politician, you are watching a fraud. The earnest ones are usually the most dangerous ones. They may actually believe the blather that comes out of their mouths that they don't understand.

Many politicians have the skill to get and keep power, but not much other skill.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#115

Post by NeedMoreTea »

grey-area wrote: post #99
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're aware of what a complete cock up he made of his entire time as Foreign Secretary?

You're aware of what a complete cock up he made of his entire time as Foreign Secretary? He has correctly calculated that he doesn't have to actually do good work to become prime minister. It all starts to make sense when you realise he has no morals and very little interest in the outcome for the country or other people, only for himself.

Most certainly, given the electorate who will put him in that place. It's Brexit über alles in der Welt.

Not sure how that puts the longer term prospects of the party.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#116

Post by lmm »

magpi3 wrote: post #109
dr_dshiv wrote: post #108

This was a fun read. My take is that politicians showing up to random award ceremonies and giving a canned speech is a normal situation, though. That he can give a canned speech in a way that seems self-deprecating and authentic, in order to entertain and connect with the audience, is impressive. I can understand why someone would feel that this is a form of lying. He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating cro…

> He is an entertainer and capable of manipulating crowds. My concern is the lack of people like this who share my own politics. The creepy part for me was not the canned speech. It was the attempt to manipulate the people at his table. The last minute arrival, the shock at finding he is the speaker, forgetting his speech at the table... I would also feel like I am watching a fraud

Wouldn't it feel more fraudulent if he "turned off the buffoon" as soon as he got backstage? When you perform a role that requires acting in a certain way, it becomes a part of you too; how many teachers come home and find themselves still in their "classroom persona" for a bit?

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#117

Post by coldtea »

mikeymz wrote: post #100
coldtea wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not sure about Boris, but I am 100% certain that the narrative about Trump playing 4D chess is bullshit. Compared to the narrative that a person who could run several multi-billion dollar businesses, negotiate deals all around the world, get back from bankruptcy (even if it was with cunning and winning banking favors) and play the media to become President is stupid?

You are missing the subtext of that narrative - Trump did none of those things. People around him and behind him are responsible. I'm not saying that is true (probably is) but it explains how a dullard with his dad's cash can achieve what he has.

All billionaires have an army of support. Even if Trump didn't handle the details, he was still on the forefront on high end deals, not sitting in the back and letting some CEOs do them (which many heirs do).

Lots of dullards with dad's cash just spent it on women and booze or lose everything, Trump kept it (if he didn't increase it, considering the bankruptcies and re-emergences) and made his name a kind of brand.

He is not gracious or polished (he's an American businessman after all, that's par for the course), but he does have the P.T Barnum kind of spirit (which is not exactly that of the dullard).

And even if we forget the business thing (say he had zero accomplishments there). The elections thing, he did mostly by himself. He obliterated opponents and won voters (including from his own party) starting from zero, when media and pundits gave him zero chances.

Could you or me?

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#118

Post by mehrdadn »

eschaton wrote: post #33
doesnt_know wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, I don't think it's very healthy that when presented with a bumbling idiot in a position of power you start to think it's a big ruse and they are actually a genius. It's best to just assume they are in fact, a bumbling idiot.

When there are actually samples of his speech before and after moving to Texas, and when he was Governor of Texas versus President of the United States, it kind of lends more credence to the claim.

Would you have links to share?

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#119

Post by js8 »

HenryBemis wrote: post #70
ruytlm wrote: post #29

I am reminded of a post I once read[0] on how coyotes are 'too clever by half'; smart enough to realise how to win each skirmish, but without realising they're losing the metagame. Johnson strikes me as someone who has learned to 'hack' the skirmishes (e.g. by playing the fool when giving speeches as discussed) in order to win in the short term, but who seems oblivious to (or to be willfully disregarding) the long te…

Great article, thank you. As for BoJo, he is smart as a fox. Trump is the same. They make 1-2 stupid things, so people call them stupid. On the back side they scheme and plan. Haters see the stupid actions and hate. They play a game of chess, sacrificing a pawn (some 'credibility' by saying something stupid), and while people are getting tired of their artificial stupidity, they march on doing their thing left alone.…

> he CANNOT be THAT stupid

I think you're underestimating the role of luck in success.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#120

Post by philjohn »

The thing people need to know about Boris is that 99% of what you see in public is a carefuly crafted image of a harmless, and somewhat likeable buffoon.

If you listen to the recording of where he was talking with an acquaitance about supplying him with the address of a reporter for said acquaintance to "rough up" an entirely different man emerges, one who doesn't stammer and ham things up.

Boris is a very calculating man, and has fooled so many, for so long. This story paints this point very vividly.

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