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“I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

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Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#91

Post by riffraff »

gexla wrote: post #77
duxup wrote: post #35

I've been lucky enough to know some US state level politicians for quite some time, not major figures, but folks who did it most of their life (while doing other things too) and were successful at it. I often got the felling that they did that thing, and even pushed the issues they did... because they were successful at it and it fit their personality. Most were not idealists despite what they said IMO, I suspect man…

> Most were not idealists despite what they said IMO, I suspect many if pressed to change their positions did not really care about the issues outside of a couple topics at most (and due to the winds of change in US politics most actually supported surprisingly different issues over time). They represent the views of the people who vote. Those views change over time. This is much like me doing what my employer asks f…

I think this point of view is arguable.

First, politicians may be considered as representative of either _only the people who voted for them_, or as _representative of everyone_.

Secondly, many politicians do not really change their point of view, the change in people's opinion is expressed by voting different people.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#92

Post by cachehit »

HenryBemis wrote: post #70
ruytlm wrote: post #29

I am reminded of a post I once read[0] on how coyotes are 'too clever by half'; smart enough to realise how to win each skirmish, but without realising they're losing the metagame. Johnson strikes me as someone who has learned to 'hack' the skirmishes (e.g. by playing the fool when giving speeches as discussed) in order to win in the short term, but who seems oblivious to (or to be willfully disregarding) the long te…

Great article, thank you. As for BoJo, he is smart as a fox. Trump is the same. They make 1-2 stupid things, so people call them stupid. On the back side they scheme and plan. Haters see the stupid actions and hate. They play a game of chess, sacrificing a pawn (some 'credibility' by saying something stupid), and while people are getting tired of their artificial stupidity, they march on doing their thing left alone.…

I am not sure about Boris, but I am 100% certain that the narrative about Trump playing 4D chess is bullshit.

I believe that George Bush may have had a persona to some degree (https://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/) because it pays off to speak like a man of the people. But everyone who's worked with Donald Trump and spoken out afterwards tell the same story about how utterly stupid he is.

In Denmark, we once elected a comedian into parliament. He won on promises like "more sunshine" and "bigger christmas presents". People loved it because it was fun and a bit of a finger to the boring, smooth politicians that they usually saw. I guess you could argue that he is smart in that he was able to win the crowd, but what I take away from that is more that the crowd is fickle and will go with (and push) a trend or a fad if it looks fun or supports their anger.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#93

Post by rjf72 »

andy_ppp wrote: post #53

In some horrendous nihilistic way we seem to get the politicians we deserve. Hopefully Boris and Trump are the end of this mess and after they screw everything we get something better, but I fear it’s just the start. It really does feel like we live in the hunger games right now.

I find Newton's Third tends to apply, extremely consistently, in politics. For every action there is an equal, but opposite, reaction. In the US you can even see this as a now at least century long trend:

- raging 1920s

- warring 1940s

- civil rights 1960s

- corporate 1980s

- identity politics 2000s

- ?? 2020s

This isn't so much about the politicians in office, but rather society itself shifting back and forth. We, probably as an evolutionary imperative, are never satisfied. So we assume the opposite of the present must be better and we push hard in that direction until we begin to forget the past and suddenly decide that the opposite of the present must be better and start to push hard back in the other direction. The entire cycle repeats on about a 20 year period. Probably not coincidentally about the time it takes for a new generation, who has 0 living experience of the 20 years before their birth, to come into existence. And they, like all youth, tend to rebel against the status quo. Perhaps their lack of voting is also why this trend tends to be more about society than its politicians.

It creates this amusing and constantly recurring paradox. The people lobbying hard for one side or the other ultimately end up creating the exact opposite. I think the only way this cycle would ever end is if people, in general, became more moderate and resistant to radicals. But then perhaps that, itself, would become the ideology that is rebelled against!

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#94

Post by fit2rule »

Think for yourself: what is happening underneath all these distractions by loud and obnoxious clowns? Am I possibly missing something important while all this fuss and nonsense is distracting the general public?

Because, we are living in an age of cults. The mechanics of the cult process are well and truly understood by the rich and powerful at this point, and we are never going to be safe for as long as we are members, unwittingly, of a cult for which we don't know the real purpose.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#95

Post by Arbalest »

tobr wrote: post #74
Arbalest wrote: post #18

He must have recognised the seachange of populism and created a persona to suit. Reminds me of the BDG video on Polygon on how to create the perfect E3 presentation. Particularly the part about Gaffes. I suppose this was a long time coming, in marketing circles, it is agreed that "Generation X" was the first "Jaded" generation, and I feel like there's some link there. Marketing to that generation often involves takin…

> Reminds me of the BDG video on Polygon on how to create the perfect E3 presentation. Particularly the part about Gaffes. Perhaps I’m the only one who hasn’t seen or knows exactly which video this refers to, and what it has to say about gaffes, but next time I would appreciate a link to go with a comment like this.

Sorry, I wasn't in a position to look up stuff on youtube at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP091FeB-3o

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#96

Post by Arbalest »

benj111 wrote: post #83
Arbalest wrote: post #18

He must have recognised the seachange of populism and created a persona to suit. Reminds me of the BDG video on Polygon on how to create the perfect E3 presentation. Particularly the part about Gaffes. I suppose this was a long time coming, in marketing circles, it is agreed that "Generation X" was the first "Jaded" generation, and I feel like there's some link there. Marketing to that generation often involves takin…

Do you mean Generation X, or Generation Y (Millenials)?

I do mean Generation X, 1960s to early 80s

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#97

Post by coldtea »

cachehit wrote: post #92
HenryBemis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great article, thank you. As for BoJo, he is smart as a fox. Trump is the same. They make 1-2 stupid things, so people call them stupid. On the back side they scheme and plan. Haters see the stupid actions and hate. They play a game of chess, sacrificing a pawn (some 'credibility' by saying something stupid), and while people are getting tired of their artificial stupidity, they march on doing their thing left alone.…

I am not sure about Boris, but I am 100% certain that the narrative about Trump playing 4D chess is bullshit. I believe that George Bush may have had a persona to some degree ( https://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/ ) because it pays off to speak like a man of the people. But everyone who's worked with Donald Trump and spoken out afterwards tell the same story about how utterly stupid he is. In Denmark, we on…

>I am not sure about Boris, but I am 100% certain that the narrative about Trump playing 4D chess is bullshit.

Compared to the narrative that a person who could run several multi-billion dollar businesses, negotiate deals all around the world, get back from bankruptcy (even if it was with cunning and winning banking favors) and play the media to become President is stupid?

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#98

Post by Arbalest »

peterwwillis wrote: post #22
pseudolus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we value superficiality over depth. Always have, always will.

People interpret charisma as depth (or at the very least, as being capable). Nobody looks at a charismatic person and says, now there's a real idiot. Even in this story you see it. The author thought he was a genius, even after watching the insanity of a supposedly unprepared speaker trying to wing it.

The real spanner in that works is that he wrote the same "notes" twice. It may be that it is his go to, but he has at least measured its impact and rehearsed it. Having a go to may well be a time management strategy.

It is also something that can be prepared by other people, considering that another commenter has pointed out that he comes from a political family, it could be that this was prepared for him for exactly this purpose.

It could simply be the genius of the political machine. When you have systems and multiple people in place, it's hard to assess individuals. Clearly someone is, we just don't know who. But from that perspective, the representatives are often not where the intellectual heavyweights with the real decision making either.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#99

Post by grey-area »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #71
HenryBemis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great article, thank you. As for BoJo, he is smart as a fox. Trump is the same. They make 1-2 stupid things, so people call them stupid. On the back side they scheme and plan. Haters see the stupid actions and hate. They play a game of chess, sacrificing a pawn (some 'credibility' by saying something stupid), and while people are getting tired of their artificial stupidity, they march on doing their thing left alone.…

You're aware of what a complete cock up he made of his entire time as Foreign Secretary?

You're aware of what a complete cock up he made of his entire time as Foreign Secretary?

He has correctly calculated that he doesn't have to actually do good work to become prime minister.

It all starts to make sense when you realise he has no morals and very little interest in the outcome for the country or other people, only for himself.

Re: “I thought I'd share this Boris Johnson story with you”

#100

Post by mikeymz »

coldtea wrote: post #97
cachehit wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure about Boris, but I am 100% certain that the narrative about Trump playing 4D chess is bullshit. I believe that George Bush may have had a persona to some degree ( https://keithhennessey.com/2013/04/24/smarter/ ) because it pays off to speak like a man of the people. But everyone who's worked with Donald Trump and spoken out afterwards tell the same story about how utterly stupid he is. In Denmark, we on…

> I am not sure about Boris, but I am 100% certain that the narrative about Trump playing 4D chess is bullshit. Compared to the narrative that a person who could run several multi-billion dollar businesses, negotiate deals all around the world, get back from bankruptcy (even if it was with cunning and winning banking favors) and play the media to become President is stupid?

You are missing the subtext of that narrative - Trump did none of those things. People around him and behind him are responsible. I'm not saying that is true (probably is) but it explains how a dullard with his dad's cash can achieve what he has.
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