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The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

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171–178 of 178 posts

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a two-way street. Reality also follows from ideas. Perhaps most people can't tell good writing from bad, but the HN crowd is more able than average to distinguish the two. Yet the attitude here boils down to "writing isn't a real job -- if you don't like working for peanuts, then STFU and get a real job !" HN members actively find ways around pay walls, more aggressively than most use ad blockers etc. Most peo…

Not so much "writing should be free", but "I dont trust and consume a specific source enough to justify subscription" with the adendum that "ads are evil". At least for me. Edit: having read the "hand licking incident" I believe it did give me value and I would be willing to pay 1 dollar or so as thanks (not implying that I got only 1 dollar value, or even that I got as much as 1 dollar value. Just a number that seem…

I primarily try to monetize my blog writing with tips and Patreon. Someone who doesn't want a recurring monthly charge can leave a one time tip.

Even though I removed ads from most of my sites in part to respect the boundaries of people who hate ads, I mostly get endless excuses rather than funds.

When I ask "How can I monetize my work?" people don't actually have a solution. They seem to think if you get enough traffic, that automagically leads to money, overlooking the fact that this concept only really works for an ad-based model and widespread use of adblockers kills it.

I sometimes get told "Product sales of some kind." Nevermind that this is another form of whoring out my writing to the need to sell something other than the value of the writing per se and also people on HN equally bitch about the evils of content marketing and how it is one of the things ruining the internet.

I've heard these arguments for years. I've tried to find a means to make money without being evil in some manner. The result for many years now is virtuous and intractable poverty.

When push comes to shove, the real answer boils down to: We expect large quantities of quality writing on a regular basis and we refuse to pay for most of it. We also will get up on our high horses and get all offended if you dare to use expressions like _slave labor_ to describe our entrenched expectations and the de facto outcome. Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up!

It's quite tiresome to keep hearing the same BS over and over while I continue to live in poverty and yadda.

Edit in response to your edit: I call bullshit. If you honest to God want to give me a single dollar, you can do so via either PayPal or Venmo right now without further hypothesizing about how giving me a single Goddamned dollar is some new means to ruin the internet, along with every other means to pay for writing. Because beneath all the hot air is the fact that most people simply expect slave labor to create good writing. If this weren't true, I could pay cash for a cheap house in my small town and quit whining on HN about being poor.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#172
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If true, that seems odd. There was an awful lot of very public searching for "what are Republicans, and how can we understand and empathize with them more?" after the last election. Tons. It's ongoing, in fact. It's mostly been—to an almost absurd degree—very gentle and good-hearted. If there's ever been anything like this sort of massive effort by Republican media figures and public intellectuals, I'd love to know a…

> what are Republicans, and how can we understand and empathize with them more?" after the last election. Tons. > very gentle and good-hearted. That has not been my impression. Just one data point.

I would say there was some people trying to understand. It just gets lost in all the people saying "Trump is evil! How could you be so stupid? You're all such idiots!" Those people are both more numerous (in my opinion) and closer to the microphones.

And of those trying to understand, some were trying to understand, and some were trying to understand how to get votes better.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that "The Selfish Gene" has been a science-based classic of evolutionary biology for over 40 years. But it's also true that in those 40 years a lot of studies have taken aim at the central arguments of the book and in my opinion cast serious doubt on the accuracy of the books conclusions (Or perhaps limit the scope of those views as being a projection of western culture - but not of all cultures on earth, p…

>Altruism: The Power of Compassion to Change Yourself and the World Aware that I might be jumping to conclusions but that doesn't sound like the title of an objective, scientific text.

Perhaps it is a failing of science that we have that perception

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#174
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right -- it's ultimately a trust problem, and we're in an unfortunate negative feedback loop here. Bots aside, what we post on the internet (and believe in general) is a function of the information we consume. That information is increasingly consumed through the internet, and the internet (as typically used) is feeding us increasingly poor quality information. (To be consumed, then shared. Recurse...) We can (and I…

I find it interesting that when something uses proper grammar and spelling, it may appear more trustworthy. Consider this: a consumer that employs above average grammar and spelling skills to write product reviews may also be more skillful in forming and expressing valuable opinions and assessments of any product. I think that people are naturally inclined to pick up on those signals, whether the correlation is real…

There is a component to terribly written phishing emails where the poor spelling and grammar becomes a filter for people who won't fall for it. People who will fall for either won't care or aren't paying attention anyway.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#175
post #82
post #72

It is simply one facet of more pervasive deceit in society. Back in the day, when you placed a long distance call, an operator would come on to ask you what your number was so the call could be billed to you. A single call might be a dollar or a few dollars, which would be ten to several tens of dollars in today's money. No one would imagine that such a system would work today.

That’s back when those systems could only be used by wealthy, educated people. Like usenet before the eternal September.

And, of course, when the automated billing system we're using now hadn't been developed yet. If asked, I'm sure the telephone company would have preferred not to trust their customers like that.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#176
post #13

At probably a naive glance it seems related to anonymity. Would tying identity to online posts increase this trust? What if you had to insert your National ID Card to comment in some feedback forums? I remember YouTube tried this and failed due to pushback. What's the driver of this clickbait/instant gratification/hot take culture that's developing? Is it just ads?

People on Facebook are posting with their real names, and much of the worst, most polarizing crap gets spread on there. Some people do post with their real names as a way of visibly holding themselves accountable for what they say, but it's something that really only makes sense as a voluntary choice.

True. Is it similar to "road rage" where people are safe and secure in their moving "castle", and freely criticize and yell at others without fear of consequences?

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much "writing should be free", but "I dont trust and consume a specific source enough to justify subscription" with the adendum that "ads are evil". At least for me. Edit: having read the "hand licking incident" I believe it did give me value and I would be willing to pay 1 dollar or so as thanks (not implying that I got only 1 dollar value, or even that I got as much as 1 dollar value. Just a number that seem…

I primarily try to monetize my blog writing with tips and Patreon. Someone who doesn't want a recurring monthly charge can leave a one time tip. Even though I removed ads from most of my sites in part to respect the boundaries of people who hate ads, I mostly get endless excuses rather than funds. When I ask "How can I monetize my work?" people don't actually have a solution. They seem to think if you get enough traf…

fyi: paypal refused to allow me to change my password, venmo refused to accept my non-US account and patreon(1) refused my non-US credit card. As expected, I did spend much more than one dollar in time trying to send you money. What I did not expect was to fail.

(1) I meant to be a one month only patron.

Also, take my data point and do with it as you will. Call me evil/slaver/bullshiter/whatever. I was trying to help and also to discuss, but I no longer feel inclined to do either.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I primarily try to monetize my blog writing with tips and Patreon. Someone who doesn't want a recurring monthly charge can leave a one time tip. Even though I removed ads from most of my sites in part to respect the boundaries of people who hate ads, I mostly get endless excuses rather than funds. When I ask "How can I monetize my work?" people don't actually have a solution. They seem to think if you get enough traf…

fyi: paypal refused to allow me to change my password, venmo refused to accept my non-US account and patreon(1) refused my non-US credit card. As expected, I did spend much more than one dollar in time trying to send you money. What I did not expect was to fail. (1) I meant to be a one month only patron. Also, take my data point and do with it as you will. Call me evil/slaver/bullshiter/whatever. I was trying to help…

Thank you for trying and for following up with this detailed reply.

I was trying to help and also to discuss, but I no longer feel inclined to do either.

Yes, this is par for the course: People get mad at me for effectively communicating that there are no good solutions here, no matter how hard I try. And it becomes a new excuse to blame me for my financial problems and declare "Not my problem! I'm done here!"

I genuinely bear you no ill will, but you and I are posting on a very public forum, so I think there are larger things at stake than your feelings. Other people need to genuinely understand how this works if it is ever going to change and being too polite about this fails to get it through to people.

They just keep arguing that I must be wrong, there must be some means for someone to make money as a writer that doesn't violate any of their constraints for how to make money as a writer without being evil. And, besides, their desire to have an ad-free, whatever whatever internet is far more important than my financial difficulties.

I got these kinds of arguments even when I was literally homeless and going hungry, which I found completely mind boggling. But, to their minds, my homelessness was merely evidence that I was incompetent and there was no reason to take me seriously, not evidence that, no, seriously, most writers really just can't make the money they need in the current climate.

You have a good day. I know I can be hard to take.

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