The internet is increasingly a low-trust society • Hacker News Board

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#21

Post by emiliobumachar » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

sb057 wrote: post #18

lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think a group of journalists selling verified, accurate, non clickbait articles based on data and first hand accounts would be able to generate enough revenue to feed the journalist’s children and send them to college?

That's part of the issue; there is no need for commercial first-hand accounts anymore. If someone on social media is talking about a news event and provides a video documenting their presence, that is about as verified and accurate as you can hope for.

Deepfakes are getting more and more accessible...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepfake

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#22

Post by rchaud » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

rosterface wrote: post #7

There's no mention of what I think is by far the biggest negative influence on trust: the media. Trust in media is at an all time low: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trust... It's a totally self inflicted wound too. Clickbait, outrage bait, blatant political spin, stealthy retractions, journalists on social media starting mobs... Bots do not even register in most people's minds compared to tha…

What you see is the clickbait. What you don't see are the structural changes to the media landscape over the past 20 years that led to this.

Newspapers per 100 million people fell from 1200 (in 1945) to 400 (in 2014). This is from a Brookings study cited in a Wikipedia article on the topic [0]. In 2013, the Chicago Sun Times laid off all its photographers and tasked journalists to take photos as well as provide the research and writing [1]. How would the quality of your work be affected if you had to do the job of 2 people?

The classifieds ads business is dead, and subscriptions have been declining for years because "news on the Internet is free". The only "media" that makes serious money is talk radio, which isn't journalism so much as diatribes of political invective.

As it turns out, that's what people are willing to pay for, or at least sit through ads for. If anything, "the media" is giving the people what they want.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_newspapers#Performa...

[1]https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/business/media/chicago-su...

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#23

Post by 0815test » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

0xfeba wrote: post #13

At probably a naive glance it seems related to anonymity. Would tying identity to online posts increase this trust? What if you had to insert your National ID Card to comment in some feedback forums? I remember YouTube tried this and failed due to pushback. What's the driver of this clickbait/instant gratification/hot take culture that's developing? Is it just ads?

People on Facebook are posting with their real names, and much of the worst, most polarizing crap gets spread on there. Some people do post with their real names as a way of visibly holding themselves accountable for what they say, but it's something that really only makes sense as a voluntary choice.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#24

Post by RankingMember » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

rosterface wrote: post #7

There's no mention of what I think is by far the biggest negative influence on trust: the media. Trust in media is at an all time low: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trust... It's a totally self inflicted wound too. Clickbait, outrage bait, blatant political spin, stealthy retractions, journalists on social media starting mobs... Bots do not even register in most people's minds compared to tha…

It's unfortunate, because while there are many bad actors, there are some outlets that don't employ these tactics that get painted with the same brush. I'm not sure how to make that better.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#25

Post by jandrese » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

sb057 wrote: post #18

lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think a group of journalists selling verified, accurate, non clickbait articles based on data and first hand accounts would be able to generate enough revenue to feed the journalist’s children and send them to college?

That's part of the issue; there is no need for commercial first-hand accounts anymore. If someone on social media is talking about a news event and provides a video documenting their presence, that is about as verified and accurate as you can hope for.

Which is incredibly susceptible to someone with an agenda who wants to spin an narrative and knows how to leverage social media.

It's tailor made for propaganda. Joe Schmoe who is actually there doesn't know how to inflate his likes and SEO his account. His voice gets drowned out by the people who are getting paid to push a particular viewpoint. There is no editor providing oversight. No ethics board. No neutral point of view. It's just whomever shouts the loudest and gets there first.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#26

Post by blueboo » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #22

rosterface wrote: post #7

There's no mention of what I think is by far the biggest negative influence on trust: the media. Trust in media is at an all time low: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trust... It's a totally self inflicted wound too. Clickbait, outrage bait, blatant political spin, stealthy retractions, journalists on social media starting mobs... Bots do not even register in most people's minds compared to tha…

What you see is the clickbait. What you don't see are the structural changes to the media landscape over the past 20 years that led to this. Newspapers per 100 million people fell from 1200 (in 1945) to 400 (in 2014). This is from a Brookings study cited in a Wikipedia article on the topic [0]. In 2013, the Chicago Sun Times laid off all its photographers and tasked journalists to take photos as well as provide the r…

> The only “media” that makes serious money is

...

> Google Made $4.7 Billion From the News Industry in 2018, Study Says

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/09/business/media/google-new...

Hmm

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#27

Post by pjc50 » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

0xfeba wrote: post #13

At probably a naive glance it seems related to anonymity. Would tying identity to online posts increase this trust? What if you had to insert your National ID Card to comment in some feedback forums? I remember YouTube tried this and failed due to pushback. What's the driver of this clickbait/instant gratification/hot take culture that's developing? Is it just ads?

Some of the worst clickbait is published in national newspapers under a byline and photograph of the author.

The Boris Johnson fiasco has got journalists openly saying "who are the people who called the police when they heard shouting and screaming next door? We need to find and expose them".

Requiring ID means the culture war side with the best harassment capability can take over the space and decide who becomes the story and who gets made unsafe.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#28

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

0815test wrote: post #12

rosterface wrote: post #7

There's no mention of what I think is by far the biggest negative influence on trust: the media. Trust in media is at an all time low: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trust... It's a totally self inflicted wound too. Clickbait, outrage bait, blatant political spin, stealthy retractions, journalists on social media starting mobs... Bots do not even register in most people's minds compared to tha…

It's not just media, but the education system as well. More educated people are significantly more , not less likely to fail Intellectual-Turing-Tests about people with opposing views. i.e. far from increasing openness to experience, education itself is functioning much like indoctrination into a fundamentalist religion! The effect starts already at a High-School level and becomes worse and worse as educational attai…

What that article tells me is that people say they belong to teams they don't actually belong to, and that very few people actually do. Seems to me to be a problem with the teams.

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#29

Post by e40 » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

rosterface wrote: post #7

There's no mention of what I think is by far the biggest negative influence on trust: the media. Trust in media is at an all time low: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trust... It's a totally self inflicted wound too. Clickbait, outrage bait, blatant political spin, stealthy retractions, journalists on social media starting mobs... Bots do not even register in most people's minds compared to tha…

The Washington Examiner is a horrible source for anything. Maybe that was your point? (That link in your comment doesn't work for me.)

Re: The internet is increasingly a low-trust society

#30

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

blueboo wrote: post #26

rchaud wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you see is the clickbait. What you don't see are the structural changes to the media landscape over the past 20 years that led to this. Newspapers per 100 million people fell from 1200 (in 1945) to 400 (in 2014). This is from a Brookings study cited in a Wikipedia article on the topic [0]. In 2013, the Chicago Sun Times laid off all its photographers and tasked journalists to take photos as well as provide the r…

> The only “media” that makes serious money is ... > Google Made $4.7 Billion From the News Industry in 2018, Study Says https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/09/business/media/google-new... Hmm

Obviously rchaud is referring to people that create media, or in this case, the journalists. I don't see what relevance Google's revenue is to this conversation. They found a way to make money by directing people to other people's work.