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You don't really want a million dollars

ryanwaggoner.com

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Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#71

Post by frossie »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #9
marknutter wrote: post #4

The "HN Users, please upvote this" banner at the bottom is disconcerting. If HN is becoming a place people are desperate to get their stories voted up on, I fear the quality is going to start decreasing dramatically in the coming months.

That's a Wordpress plugin called "WP Greet Box" [1] and this message is only shown to users coming from HN, not everyone. Also, you'll be happy to know that I get grief for it every time one of my posts lands on the homepage :) I understand your concern, but it's really just a reminder to vote the article up if you enjoyed it. I frequently read good articles and then forget to vote them up because something else catc…

For what it's worth - Every time i click on an HN story I also open the comment page (in two new tabs - I use the fabulous Tree Style Tab firefox extension to stop that becoming as insane as it sounds).

That way after I read the story, even if I go away, the comment page is still open so I can upvote it when I am clearing up later. In that way I rarely if ever forget to upvote a story I liked.

I don't particularly like having my upvote solicited because it makes the thing seem too much like a popularity contest - the people who lobby end up getting more than the equally worthy ones that don't.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#72

Post by binaryfinery »

simon_ wrote: post #13

I really disagree with this. Far from being more than anybody needs, a million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Sure... a "trip to Thailand" doesn't require a million dollars, but what if you want: Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Not to worry about the cost of college for your children? To own a small home in NYC or SF? To afford competent legal repres…

Was that his point? My take-away was "don't wait for a million dollars to do the things you've always wanted."

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#73

Post by muhfuhkuh »

Alex3917 wrote: post #60
yummyfajitas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your article doesn't really support your position: "The government says families in the top-third income bracket will spend $279,450 to raise a child born in 2005 through age 17 -- or about $16,000 a year. " Also from the article: "Add in extras like private school, a nanny and a flat-screen TV set in a kid's bedroom, and that figure climbs to $1.6 million." "In San Diego, Jacqueline Jones recently rang in her fifth…

"The government says families in the top-third income bracket will spend $279,450 to raise a child born in 2005 through age 17 -- or about $16,000 a year." The reason that the government figures are wrong is that, to quote Parenting, Inc. again, they don't include the cost of "maternity clothes, new home purchases and moving expenses, childbirth education and newborn classes, prenatal vitamins and extra fruits and ve…

What, in the ever-loving name of Buddha Himself, is a babymoon vacation?

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#74

Post by berntb »

simon_ wrote: post #13

I really disagree with this. Far from being more than anybody needs, a million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Sure... a "trip to Thailand" doesn't require a million dollars, but what if you want: Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Not to worry about the cost of college for your children? To own a small home in NYC or SF? To afford competent legal repres…

There are two levels.

On the first level, you can retire, buy health insurance and not have any worries. A million would be enough. I would live on a diving boat cruising over coral reefs and code games between dives. (I'd also hire my gf to cook.)

>>And that doesn't even touch the reasons people want to be rich - like private jets and angel investing and art collecting and space tourism, etc.

On the second level, you can get what is high status among the really cool and rich nerds -- your own space program. (-: Well, some people without taste waste that opportunity on curing diseases that kill millions a year, sigh. :-)

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#75

Post by Vivtek »

byoung2 wrote: post #28
qjz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that a lot of people need less stuff. But the lifestyle you describe is minimalism for one . Minimalism for two is exponentially different, and minimalism for four is exponentially different to that. I need to keep my kids in one place for nine months out of the year, supply transport to conflicting events, and eventually secure them a decent post-secondary education. A million dollars would come in awfully h…

I was referring specifically to people who want to just hop on a plane but talk themselves out of it because they need more money. People with families will have other reasons to not sell the house and jump on a plane. Who knows, you could probably take the kids along and home school them from abroad. It would be interesting to learn about history and language while visiting the actual countries. World War 2 looks a…

Har, har. We did the homeschooling-while-abroad thing. It's a mixed blessing. Your kids probably won't thank you for making them the odd ones out when they're teens. Younger ones, sure, that works. But along about 12 to 15 depending on gender and personality, you'd better pick a spot and stay there for a few years. More years if you have overlapping kids.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#76

Post by joe_the_user »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #18
simon_ wrote: post #13

I really disagree with this. Far from being more than anybody needs, a million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Sure... a "trip to Thailand" doesn't require a million dollars, but what if you want: Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Not to worry about the cost of college for your children? To own a small home in NYC or SF? To afford competent legal repres…

A million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Nonsense: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Health insurance isn't that expensive unless you have a pre-existing condition [1]. I won't talk about the college and home ownership questions other than to say that families have figured out how to live…

Suppose you're 30 say and expect to live till you're 80 and to spend US median income (50K/yr) on your survival, then you expect to spend 2.5 million in your remaining lifetime.

Having an extra-million to spend on consumption would put you at the ~70K/year level. That's something like a move from middle to barely-upper-middle class consumption levels.

So 1 million doesn't give you an abnormal amount of money to spend unless you spend it all in one place or something.

And your article on "how to retire..." isn't about how to retire at all but how to work with a million dollars and make a fair income, which is fine and good as long as you acknowledge that the person has to ... A) be moderately competent, B) be willing to accept some risks and discomforts (living Texas for example...) C) be willing to keep working (sure, maybe not that hard but still it involves effort, it's not friggin "retirement" in the normal sense).

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#77

Post by m4wk3r »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #41
Alex3917 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of raising a kid right now if you want them to have a typical upper middle class upbringing is somewhere between 800k - 1.6M (2007 dollars) from birth to age 17. The exact figure depends on whether you want to send them to private school, whether you are feeding them all organic food, and a couple other things. Even the most basic middle class (no after school sports, summer camp, etc.) upbringing costs $500…

Can you post some sources? I'm extremely skeptical. If you have three kids in America, you're telling me that parents need to make $100k / yr just to cover the cost of the kids, not to mention their own costs? And triple that for an "upper middle class" upbringing? Yeah, I'm really skeptical. The median household income in America is way, way less than that and I don't think most kids in America are living in the abj…

it's not that absurd when you consider opportunity costs. even if your actual expenses are only 10k/yr, at a 7% avg rate of return, after 17 years you're down 170k plus ~140k in lost interest. at 20k/yr you hit 340k plus ~280k in lost interest.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#78

Post by Xurinos »

I do. From the extremely rich, I heard something along these lines: "When you have money, money is not an issue."

If you want to have, try, or do something NOW, money can make it happen. No waiting. Life is short. In exchange for money, I would have time. I would be liberated to pursue other things, to answer the call of other motivations. I picture it much like Maslow's Hierarchy: pierce the resource barrier, and you have ventured into the next level. The acquisition of resources and services in general is no longer an issue. Now we are in the realm of the rare, and our internal motivations/desires guide us more.

No need to worry about what kind of insurance you have. No need to pause to ask if you can afford to take an ambulance. No need to decide between this or that. No more dreaming about taking a rocket to the moon.

This is another way to say "freedom", but a general "freedom" is incorrect. There is always the next problem, the next desire. Remove money as a block, and many issues are resolved, while new issues enter the picture.

Of course, a million dollars does not buy all that, but it could sure get me out of my debts and bolster my current investments! Yes, I really want a million dollars. A million dollars buys me time, my most precious resource, time I did not have to spend making that million.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#79

Post by yummyfajitas »

Alex3917 wrote: post #60
yummyfajitas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your article doesn't really support your position: "The government says families in the top-third income bracket will spend $279,450 to raise a child born in 2005 through age 17 -- or about $16,000 a year. " Also from the article: "Add in extras like private school, a nanny and a flat-screen TV set in a kid's bedroom, and that figure climbs to $1.6 million." "In San Diego, Jacqueline Jones recently rang in her fifth…

"The government says families in the top-third income bracket will spend $279,450 to raise a child born in 2005 through age 17 -- or about $16,000 a year." The reason that the government figures are wrong is that, to quote Parenting, Inc. again, they don't include the cost of "maternity clothes, new home purchases and moving expenses, childbirth education and newborn classes, prenatal vitamins and extra fruits and ve…

Very true. Government figures don't include the cost of vacations that parents take before the baby is born (I had to google just to figure out WTF a "babymoon" is). They also leave out the cost of booze to lower the mother-to-be's inhibitions and the cost of the backseat of the car where conception occurred!

Alex, do you have any idea how the bottom 95% live?

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#80

Post by kenjackson »

pedanticfreak wrote: post #67
kenjackson wrote: post #22

I think Ryan misses the point for most people. I do want a "million" dollars for freedom, but it's not just to go to Thailand. In fact I don't really like traveling, but I'd pay a lot if you could teleport me instantly. I want the freedom to work on what I want to work on AND to buy what I want. I'm tired of saying, "I won't get that TV now, because in 12 months that TV is coming out". Or "lets wait 8 months for the…

I think you're also missing some of the point though. You don't need a million dollars for any or all of those things you just listed. Add it all up and you're barely breaking a few thousand dollars. Sure you need money. He's not saying you don't need money. The point is that when people say they need to be arbitrarily wealthy because they want to eventually do Y, they can usually do Y for much, much less money than…

Honestly, what I want is a lot more than a million dollars. Any one thing may not cost a million dollars (although there are a lot of things I didn't list that I'd like, like a private piloted jet, in-home maid staff, private chefs, production and guest appearances from folks like Jay-Z for a record I'd like to produce, etc...).

I've learned to settle to do things I generally "mostly" like. Like, while I like to do software development, I've decided to not start another startup. While I made decent money, most of my time wasn't spent writing code. And honestly, most of the type of code I like to write isn't like Facebook. It's stuff that I get personal enjoyment out of -- deploying to millions of people is mostly of interest to investors.

I don't even think about the Bugatti Veyron Grand Sport, not because I don't want one, but I've learned to set my expectations lower than what I absolutely want.

I think most people do the same, although some delude themselves that all they really want is a Honda Civic.

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