You don't really want a million dollars • Hacker News Board

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#41

Post by ryanwaggoner » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:26 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #32

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Nonsense: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Health insurance isn't that expensive unless you have a pre-existing condition [1]. I won't talk about the college and home ownership questions other than to say that families have figured out how to live…

The cost of raising a kid right now if you want them to have a typical upper middle class upbringing is somewhere between 800k - 1.6M (2007 dollars) from birth to age 17. The exact figure depends on whether you want to send them to private school, whether you are feeding them all organic food, and a couple other things. Even the most basic middle class (no after school sports, summer camp, etc.) upbringing costs $500…

Can you post some sources? I'm extremely skeptical. If you have three kids in America, you're telling me that parents need to make $100k / yr just to cover the cost of the kids, not to mention their own costs? And triple that for an "upper middle class" upbringing?

Yeah, I'm really skeptical. The median household income in America is way, way less than that and I don't think most kids in America are living in the abject poverty these numbers would suggest.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#42

Post by Swannie » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:27 PM UTC

You're right, I want about 5m.

Not to retire on, but to remove the need to work to provide a roof and food. So I can risk working on all the things that interest me and them tanking big time.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#43

Post by defen » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:28 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #36

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Nonsense: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Health insurance isn't that expensive unless you have a pre-existing condition [1]. I won't talk about the college and home ownership questions other than to say that families have figured out how to live…

We did fix that problem. Everyone will have to buy health insurance, and insurers will in large part be prevented from rejecting people for preexisting conditions.

I'm not a constitutional scholar so I have no idea how big of a deal this is, but: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-13/politics/health.care_1_he...

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#44

Post by nicolas_t » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:29 PM UTC

Well you know what? I'm 27, I have lived in 9 countries for long periods of time (more than 3 months for 2 of them, more than 1 year for the rest), I've traveled around to a few other countries and, well now that I want to settle down I do want a million dollar.

While it's not the only reason why I'm creating my own business, money is a big part of the motivation. Of course I love most of what I do [1], wasting my life doing something that I hate to earn money is also not a smart move. But, yes money is definitely something I want...

For example, I want to be able to have my house, a place of my own that I can modify how I want it, not a place owned by some landlord who places a lot of restrictions on what I can do... I want to be able to go to the expensive 3 stars restaurants, stay at nice 5 stars hotels instead of cheap youth hostels... I want to enjoy luxuries..

[1] Unfortunately growing my business means having employees and delegating some of the fun part along with the boring parts. And managing is not my favorite part of the job.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#45

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:30 PM UTC

jshen wrote: post #25

qjz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that a lot of people need less stuff. But the lifestyle you describe is minimalism for one . Minimalism for two is exponentially different, and minimalism for four is exponentially different to that. I need to keep my kids in one place for nine months out of the year, supply transport to conflicting events, and eventually secure them a decent post-secondary education. A million dollars would come in awfully h…

I was about to post something similar but with less kindness. I really hate this self-righteous posts from people that have no kids and essentially no real responsibility except themselves. It's the height of arrogance to preach to other people from such a position.

[deleted]

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#46

Post by yummyfajitas » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:32 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #32

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Nonsense: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Health insurance isn't that expensive unless you have a pre-existing condition [1]. I won't talk about the college and home ownership questions other than to say that families have figured out how to live…

The cost of raising a kid right now if you want them to have a typical upper middle class upbringing is somewhere between 800k - 1.6M (2007 dollars) from birth to age 17. The exact figure depends on whether you want to send them to private school, whether you are feeding them all organic food, and a couple other things. Even the most basic middle class (no after school sports, summer camp, etc.) upbringing costs $500…

Your article doesn't really support your position: "The government says families in the top-third income bracket will spend $279,450 to raise a child born in 2005 through age 17 -- or about $16,000 a year. "

Also from the article:

"Add in extras like private school, a nanny and a flat-screen TV set in a kid's bedroom, and that figure climbs to $1.6 million."

"In San Diego, Jacqueline Jones recently rang in her fifth year with a $1,000 mermaid-theme party. The fête, held at a community pool, included a piñata, pizza, cake, juice boxes, customized goodie bags for 20 and a former beauty queen who arrived dressed head to toe as Ariel, the Disney princess."

"...toddlers in $800 strollers to 10-year-olds with cellphones. But for many families, drawing the line between attentive parenting and extravagance is a tough call;..."

"School itself is just the beginning. It might mean paying $16,500 in annual property taxes in an area with top public schools like Millburn, N.J., ..." (Note: Millburn has a median house price of $1 million, and a median income of $150k/year.)

[edit, in response to your edit: the USDA comes up with $11-13k for two-parent families with income of $57-98k/year. That's about $230k/child over 18 years, for a group of families all of whom are richer than average.]

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#47

Post by tptacek » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:32 PM UTC

defen wrote: post #43

tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did fix that problem. Everyone will have to buy health insurance, and insurers will in large part be prevented from rejecting people for preexisting conditions.

I'm not a constitutional scholar so I have no idea how big of a deal this is, but: http://articles.cnn.com/2010-12-13/politics/health.care_1_he...

No opinion I can give about this will result in anything less than 48 comments of pointless political argument about the Commerce Clause and health care and moral hazard and libertarianism and how someone's mom was totally able to haggle perfectly good health care out of a hospitals for pennies on the dollar and it's all the fault of people who consume HFCS and let's just bypass all that.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#48

Post by ry0ohki » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:32 PM UTC

I think tech people take for granted that other people can be as mobile as us. If you're currently working for minimum wage at a convenience store, you probably have very little in the way of skills or education, and there are so many barriers to just getting out from under your bills. Even traveling very cheap requires some savings, and most people have $0 in savings and many thousands of dollars in debt.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#49

Post by narkee » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:35 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #18

simon_ wrote: post #13

I really disagree with this. Far from being more than anybody needs, a million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Sure... a "trip to Thailand" doesn't require a million dollars, but what if you want: Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Not to worry about the cost of college for your children? To own a small home in NYC or SF? To afford competent legal repres…

A million dollars is actually not enough to secure a dignified existence in the US. Nonsense: http://ryanwaggoner.com/2010/08/how-to-retire-at-30-on-1-mil... Not to face bankruptcy if a major health problem arises? Health insurance isn't that expensive unless you have a pre-existing condition [1]. I won't talk about the college and home ownership questions other than to say that families have figured out how to live…

Of course you want things money can buy - that's implicit when someone says they want money. Because we all know that money has no intrinsic value, and saying we want money is a little easier than saying we want a magic genie that will give us things for free.

Re: You don't really want a million dollars

#50

Post by tptacek » Mon, Dec 20, 2010, 7:35 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #46

Alex3917 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of raising a kid right now if you want them to have a typical upper middle class upbringing is somewhere between 800k - 1.6M (2007 dollars) from birth to age 17. The exact figure depends on whether you want to send them to private school, whether you are feeding them all organic food, and a couple other things. Even the most basic middle class (no after school sports, summer camp, etc.) upbringing costs $500…

Your article doesn't really support your position: "The government says families in the top-third income bracket will spend $279,450 to raise a child born in 2005 through age 17 -- or about $16,000 a year. " Also from the article: "Add in extras like private school, a nanny and a flat-screen TV set in a kid's bedroom, and that figure climbs to $1.6 million." "In San Diego, Jacqueline Jones recently rang in her fifth…

We spent a lot on food (I goof around with cooking) and there is no way it is costing us $32,000 to raise both our children. Even if you normalized for the premium we pay on our mortgage to be in a neighborhood with good public schools, I don't think we're in that ballpark.

I wonder how much of this is just people sending their kids to absurd private schools.