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Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

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Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#101

Post by antidesitter »

p_l wrote: post #46
atemerev wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do we need nation states?

Nation in nation state is pretty recent addition and already dying off (fortunately), but the state owing allegiance to its citizens (ever imperfect) is better than slide back to feudal-authoritarian corporation that is in no way on the hook for anything towards the common man.

> corporation that is in no way on the hook for anything towards the common man.

It is, because corporations have stronger incentives than governments to benefit the common man.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#102

Post by foobarbecue »

StaticRedux wrote: post #4
foobarbecue wrote: post #2

"Most talked about in history"? Needs citation... And the hyperbole is constant through the midpoint of the article, where I stopped reading.

It's a hackernoon opinion blog post, not the New York Times. And you don't need a citation for something that is clearly meant to be hyperbole. [Citation needed] has gone from a notation about checking facts to a trendy response whenever someone doesn't like something they read in a blog post or comment.

If the author is going to make such extraordinary claims, I expect to see some research to back it up. There are plenty of metrics: google trends, headline count, tweet count etc. Since he hasn't done the legwork, and the claim rings false, I'm calling him out.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#103

Post by ilaksh »

jayd16 wrote: post #95
ilaksh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, and governments are asking for a way to combat real cryptocurrencies from taking over. Because Bitcoin and Ethereum are making major pushes to increase scalability. The payment processors can't profit from real cryptocurrency and governments can't control it. They are mainly trying to catch up with WeChat Pay etc. But they figured it would be good to pretend it is a cryptocurrency because th…

I don't see the user value though. >The payment processors can't profit from real cryptocurrency and governments can't control it I think you're underestimating the power of the tax man but I agree otherwise.

That's the point. There is no value over real cryptocurrency.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#104

Post by galaxyLogic »

confounded wrote: post #35
aakilfernandes wrote: post #13

Libra isn't a cypherpunk wet dream, but it moves us in that direction and thats a good thing. This article is written from the perspective that crypto mass-adoption is right around the corner (i.e. just a few UX tweaks) and that Libra will displace the crypto-utopia that could-have-been. I couldn't disagree more. The lack of adoption is a combo of a 1) network "dead-zone", 2) reversal risk, and 3) regulatory friction…

In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporations?

Is Bitcoin governed democratically?

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#105

Post by wolco »

antidesitter wrote: post #99
jacobush wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because the nation states force this on the corporations. Do you really think the corporation would let you choose anything if they were let unchecked? You'd have to pick your allegiance and then face the consequences. Or they'd pick you before you had a chance to choose yourself. Do you think the lords of old let the serfs have a say in whether they wanted to leave or stay? No. It would be the same for us. Goin…

It’s actually the opposite. States reduce choices available to customers. See my sibling comment for an example: the cable industry.

It is not that simple. Policy can increase or decrease competition. Breaking up Ma Bell as an example.

Overall governments increase standards which can lead to few players but it can also help an industry grow quicker and allow for more complex/value products/services which creates an industry around it helping support it (shopify)

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#106

Post by beezischillin »

chicob wrote: post #52
confounded wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cypherpunk terms, what’s dreamy about a crypto currency with no anonymity, that shifts power from international democratic governments to private US corporations?

Nothing, unless you're a anarcho-capitalist libertarian.

I highly doubt anarcho capitalists would want to replace the government with another, even worse government

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#107

Post by hakfoo »

PeterisP wrote: post #90
Theodores wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unlikely that you will need to sit in a bank and fill out forms to get a card. You will have no more hoops to go through than in-game tokens. Which makes me wonder, why haven't there been in-game tokens made universal yet? I don't do Facebook but didn't they once have a large Zynga game thing on the go, very much tied into the platform? A monopoly on a virtual currency should have happened by now, one that only…

In-game tokens can be legally treated as just part of the game because they can't be transferable to mates and cashed out to hard currency. As soon as (for example) Zynga claims that tokens can be cashed out for hard currency or used to buy arbitrary real-world things outside of that game, that would mean that all kinds of money-related regulations would start to apply for them. For example, many game mechanics that…

I'm actually surprised that the WoW Token and Eve's PLEX haven't crossed that red line already.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#108

Post by hakfoo »

aakilfernandes wrote: post #13

Libra isn't a cypherpunk wet dream, but it moves us in that direction and thats a good thing. This article is written from the perspective that crypto mass-adoption is right around the corner (i.e. just a few UX tweaks) and that Libra will displace the crypto-utopia that could-have-been. I couldn't disagree more. The lack of adoption is a combo of a 1) network "dead-zone", 2) reversal risk, and 3) regulatory friction…

To be honest, the 'reversal risk' issue is a red herring.

Consumers are not going to be thrilled about storing their money in a system where there's no official "if your account gets compromised or suffers a technical difficulty, you'll be made whole" policy. If it turns into a knock-on situation where they buy third-party insurance at their expense, it looks even worse.

For merchants, even if not technically required, legitimate players are going to have to find a way to bolt refunds onto such a system. The risk to reputation would be too great-- nobody wants to be known as "this is where people go to buy stuff with stolen crypto because they never refund." And this will be priced into things, just like now they have to price in losses due to bad cheques and stolen cards.

What's the best a perfect crypto dream can offer? An appeal to super-high-risk (and outright fraud) merchants who might benefit from not having surprise clawbacks and chargeback fees.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#109

Post by hkt »

hkt wrote: post #27

Libra shows what crypto and in particular blockchain is really for: allowing global megacorporations to start their assault on the nation state. It's pretty critical we undo this, while the nation state still has its monopoly on the legitimate use of force.

For those asking why we need the nation state: because in most countries, this is part and parcel of having a democracy. Celebrate the death of the nation state, you celebrate the death of democracy in itself.

Against democracy? Start another thread explaining why you're so damn clever you'd wind back centuries of political progress.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#110

Post by ncmncm »

The origin of physical currency -- coins -- happened 2000 years after money was invented. Coins were invented as a way to provision armies.

It worked like this: soldiers were paid in coins. Taxes were required to be paid only with the new coins. The only way to get the coins, to pay your taxes with, was to sell supplies to soldiers who had coins. Armies supplied, check.

Facebook has an opportunity to force its coin into use by a similar stratagem: offer advertisers a discount (at first!) if paid in Libra. Advertisers can only get Libra from Facebook account holders. Advertisers have to sell at a discount, for Libra, to get enough Libra, but they get it back in the advertising discount. If buyers want these discounts, they need to get Libra from Facebook.

Soon, Facebook controls the economy of the world.

It was recently explained to me that Facebook only wishes they could be as evil as Google, but they were way behind. (Google passed Microsoft sometime back.) This could leapfrog Facebook far beyond Google's dreams.

Are we in for Dystopia? I can't see how not, unless they fuck up so it's both too hard to use and too easy to get ripped off.

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