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Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

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Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#91

Post by mr_toad »

arawde wrote: post #67
ur--whale wrote: post #65

Conspicuously missing from the entire libra story is how they are actually going to manage the peg. How will they handle the custodian counter-party risk? What I mean by that is: for libra to actually be a stablecoin, for every libra unit in circulation, FB and their merry band of friends will need to stash a frozen combo of {dollar, euro, yen} somewhere. That "somewhere" is actually not easy at all to design from a…

I've only read the white paper, but finance is one of my biggest hobbies, so I'm going to take a stab at addressing the concerns you mention. It's not entirely a currency peg - it's an asset peg. The assets will be Treasurys, bunds, etc. that are _representative_ of currencies, but are not direct currencies. The peg is going to drift. The history of currency pegs is filled with struggles by institutions to maintain t…

> I think the idea behind Libra is that, while the peg will drift, Libra will still be a drastically more stable store of value compared to almost every other crypto.

There will be a temptation to speculate on it. And once started, speculation could easily get out of hand. If they want some semblance of stability they’re going to be prepared to actively engage in monetary operations, just like any other currency.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#92

Post by mr_toad »

bmdavi3 wrote: post #76

Sure it'll be nice to make easy money off the interest on deposits. And it'll be nice to make money on the analytics that can be run on all the worlds' transactions. Great. But the biggest pay off is that once consumers buy into Libra as a thing on its own, the policy can be changed to no longer link it to any basket of currencies, and it can then be issued without that annoying and expensive currency-buying-thing. J…

> it can then be issued without that annoying and expensive currency-buying-thing. Just pure profit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage

You can only do so much of that before you debase your currency.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#93

Post by microwavecamera »

zeroxfe wrote: post #75
electrotype wrote: post #59

I wonder: why does everybody say it's a "Facebook currency", a Facebook project, if there are +/- 30 corporations in the association? Does Facebook have more decision power than Visa, MasterCard or any other participating corporation? Or is Facebook simply the main vector Libra will be promoted with? Would Libra still be a project if Facebook was (hypothetically) shut down?

> why does everybody say it's a "Facebook currency", a Facebook project, if there are +/- 30 corporations in the association? Because FB launched it, and currently appears to have the most control over the project. At the same time, people don't actually take the time to understand the governance model. > Does Facebook have more decision power than Visa, MasterCard or any other participating corporation? No. They get…

> Yes, it would. Again FB will have just 1% of the control at launch.

But wouldn't FB be running/in control of the most of the infrastructure behind Libra? The stability of the currency would be dependent on FB providing the core services behind Libra. Having "just 1% of the control" doesn't matter if FB can just shut it down and/or destabilize it's value at will. It's FB actually intends for it to be an open cryptocurrency then why make a new one when we already have several options available other than being able to exert control over it?

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#94

Post by jayd16 »

gst wrote: post #31
jayd16 wrote: post #30

Can someone explain what this provides to users over, say, a credit or debit card? You don't have the rebellious notions of sticking it to traditional banks, not do you have (completely imagined) anonymity crypto fans have gravitated to. You don't have any of the intangibles crypto fans like. It just seems like Facebook wants a central bank. Who's asking for that?

Direct peer-to-peer payments: Those are currently a nightmare when you regularly travel. US: Venmo, Europe: SEPA, China: Wechat, etc. If Facebook manages to sign up enough stakeholders from different countries (that provide gateways between Libra and traditional bank accounts in their respective countries) Libra would provide a viable global alternative to the currently very fragmented market.

Fair enough. That's a hypothetical at this point though, isn't it?

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#95

Post by jayd16 »

ilaksh wrote: post #54
jayd16 wrote: post #30

Can someone explain what this provides to users over, say, a credit or debit card? You don't have the rebellious notions of sticking it to traditional banks, not do you have (completely imagined) anonymity crypto fans have gravitated to. You don't have any of the intangibles crypto fans like. It just seems like Facebook wants a central bank. Who's asking for that?

Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, and governments are asking for a way to combat real cryptocurrencies from taking over. Because Bitcoin and Ethereum are making major pushes to increase scalability. The payment processors can't profit from real cryptocurrency and governments can't control it. They are mainly trying to catch up with WeChat Pay etc. But they figured it would be good to pretend it is a cryptocurrency because th…

I don't see the user value though.

>The payment processors can't profit from real cryptocurrency and governments can't control it

I think you're underestimating the power of the tax man but I agree otherwise.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#96

Post by jayd16 »

buboard wrote: post #48
jayd16 wrote: post #30

Can someone explain what this provides to users over, say, a credit or debit card? You don't have the rebellious notions of sticking it to traditional banks, not do you have (completely imagined) anonymity crypto fans have gravitated to. You don't have any of the intangibles crypto fans like. It just seems like Facebook wants a central bank. Who's asking for that?

but it is pegged to other central banks, what kind of central bank is that? The only positive that i see about Libra is that it will (hopefully) be exchangeable for some real uncensorable coin.

It's only pegged as much as they so choose. If you can change your own exchange rates day to day, the consortium can buy and sell fiat currency in such a way as to cause inflation or deflation. It's all the same power without a physical mint, is it not?

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#98

Post by antidesitter »

Terretta wrote: post #86
wyoh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you can choose the corporation you want to deal with, unlike the nation state you live in.

Just like choosing your cable company... or wait, that’s chosen for you based on where you live. Hmm.

> chosen for you based on where you live

That’s right. By the government [0][1].

[0] https://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-ju...

[1] http://blogs.reuters.com/jackshafer/2014/02/19/whos-afraid-o...

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#99

Post by antidesitter »

jacobush wrote: post #84
wyoh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least you can choose the corporation you want to deal with, unlike the nation state you live in.

Only because the nation states force this on the corporations. Do you really think the corporation would let you choose anything if they were let unchecked? You'd have to pick your allegiance and then face the consequences. Or they'd pick you before you had a chance to choose yourself. Do you think the lords of old let the serfs have a say in whether they wanted to leave or stay? No. It would be the same for us. Goin…

It’s actually the opposite. States reduce choices available to customers. See my sibling comment for an example: the cable industry.

Re: Libra, a Cyberpunk Nightmare in the Midst of Crypto Spring

#100

Post by palunon »

gst wrote: post #38
hrktb wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t that be done through easily through Paypal ? (or Western Union, I just never tried)

PayPal is not available in a lot of countries (Turkey would be one example). Western Union might work, but the fees are high and there's much more friction. In case you're based in the United States: Would you use Western Union over Venmo / Square Cash. If you're based in Europe: Would you use Western Union over SEPA? Libra has the potential to provide a low friction environment (like Venmo) supported by local compan…

> If you're based in Europe: Would you use Western Union over SEPA ?

At least in France, people actually use apps like Venmo for person to person transfers (or cash, or cheques, but they're on their way out).

We mostly use SEPA for either automatic bill payment authorization, or big transfers. No one will start a bank transfer and ask for their friends IBAN to pay back two beers.

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