What worried me is that actually someone out there believe in this shit.
Provide contradicting evidence for your assertion.
Report on forced organ harvesting in China
101–110 of 199 posts
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I'd imagine you'd ignore U.S. abuses and provocations, (Iran?), I imagine? Is China worse than Saudi Arabia for example? Because I can't imagine U.S. speaking strongly against KSA, can you? The U.S. doesn't really care about human rights, or its own abuse of them, (was any top official prosecuted for Iraq?), so you'd be voting for posturing.
See, this is pretty typical of how the Chinese are told about their own government’s abuses in schools and media: “but what about the other guy?!”. It’s just not a valid argument. It serves only to change the topic and justify nationalism.
I'm not from the USA, so I can't vote, but IMHO if the candidate truly cares about human rights will condemn equally and publicly the crimes in China, Saudi Arabia or any other country , if it only talks about the Chinese or Iranian one, just when there's a big manipulation campaign against those countries I know that candidate is a liar and is scamming the voters who fall for it.
Also it's the same card some US people play when they are told about the abuses of their government/businesses, hey look at Iran , look at China, ...
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I'd imagine you'd ignore U.S. abuses and provocations, (Iran?), I imagine? Is China worse than Saudi Arabia for example? Because I can't imagine U.S. speaking strongly against KSA, can you? The U.S. doesn't really care about human rights, or its own abuse of them, (was any top official prosecuted for Iraq?), so you'd be voting for posturing.
See, this is pretty typical of how the Chinese are told about their own government’s abuses in schools and media: “but what about the other guy?!”. It’s just not a valid argument. It serves only to change the topic and justify nationalism.
The US has a strong trade and military relationship with KSA, despite their utterly appalling human rights record. It's entirely legitimate to say "If this is really about human rights, why are you selling hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons to an authoritarian regime?". That isn't whataboutism, it's a fundamental critique of the motivations of foreign policy decisions.
Analogy: Joe and Paul are gangsters with a nasty reputation. Paul is in hiding because the police department have declared him public enemy number 1, while Joe was a guest of honor at the last police benevolent society dinner. Are you not at least the tiniest bit skeptical about whether the police chief is really trying to fight crime?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia%E2%80%93United_St...
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#104This is a textbook thought experiment in utilitarianism, carried to its logical conclusion. Kill one person, save eight. We might not like it, we might consider it abhorrent, it might contravene international human rights law, but we can't argue that it's senseless.
What you're leaving out is that the one person being killed is not picked randomly from the citizen pool, they are all persecuted minorities. So, a more accurate statement would be that China is murdering one person from a group the communist party doesn't like to save eight from the ethnic group that constitutes the overwhelming majority of the ruling class. That is not utilitarianism, it's just tribalism and xenoph…
Falun Gong are primarily the same ethnic group as majority: han. They are oppressed because the Communist Party cannot accept any rival ideology, even if it's a non-violent, peaceful spiritual ideology, because that might loosen their grip on the population.
I'm sure there are utilitarian communists out there who would argue that, yes, terrible, terrible, but necessary for the greater good.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#105Because the russian boogeyman is so last year, let's invent a new one.
You lack a basic understanding of what the term 'invent' is. There are evidential documents to support the findings.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a point of view that makes no sense. Murdering one person to save another is not "noble". It negates the entire point of "human rights" in the first place. You might as well suggest that people who need organs should be able to kill a random person on the street to get them.
I think the OP was merely opining that they'd rather see this, than people dying for pure profit motive. I know that, were I provided a choice between killing someone for forced organ donation that could potentially save lives, versus killing someone for greed, profit, or punishment , with no way to say "no", I'd choose the former. Making it clear, however, that I'd rather never have to make that choice in the first…
I see where you're coming from.
I guess to me, it makes no moral difference. The means corrupt the end. The Nazis managed to get some useful science out of the Jews during the Holocaust, but it's hard to see that as a silver lining.
I think that if you're at the level of making those kinds of choices, you're already living in hell.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#107«hundreds of Chinese scientific papers might be compromised due to their reliance upon thousands of unethically sourced organs.» This is like saying that theses people died or were killed, and now some dumbsters will take away even the slightest hope that their death was somehow useful for the rest of us. If I were dying in a concentration camp from the experiments of Doctor Mengele, knowing that my death would contr…
That's an interesting perspective, but faced with an immediate painful death I doubt science would be on your mind. Not to mention that it's not known if the research obtained is useful at all. There's already a serious crisis in Chinese science in terms of falsified results.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#108«hundreds of Chinese scientific papers might be compromised due to their reliance upon thousands of unethically sourced organs.» This is like saying that theses people died or were killed, and now some dumbsters will take away even the slightest hope that their death was somehow useful for the rest of us. If I were dying in a concentration camp from the experiments of Doctor Mengele, knowing that my death would contr…
The only thing Mengele contributed to science, unintentionally, was the Nuremburg Code. A set of ethical principles for human experimentation.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I'd imagine you'd ignore U.S. abuses and provocations, (Iran?), I imagine? Is China worse than Saudi Arabia for example? Because I can't imagine U.S. speaking strongly against KSA, can you? The U.S. doesn't really care about human rights, or its own abuse of them, (was any top official prosecuted for Iraq?), so you'd be voting for posturing.
Yes, China is worse. It harvests tens of thousands of organs from political prisoners. It holds hundreds of thousands of minorities in concentration camps in Xinjiang. And that barely scratches the surface. The KSA needs to face severe repercussions too, but repression, censorship, and extralegal assassinations are all in a day's work for the PRC.
> It harvests tens of thousands of organs from political prisoners.
Is this actually proven?
> It holds hundreds of thousands of minorities in concentration camps in Xinjiang.
KSA outright levels cities with minorities in them, so am not sure how they're better.
> repression, censorship, and extralegal assassinations are all in a day's work for the PRC
As far as I know, China does not repress women anywhere near the level that KSA does, nor does it require 'guardians', nor does it perform public beheading, prosecute people for 'witchcraft etc. so while am not claiming China is great, I am fairly certain it's less repressive than the KSA overall.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it creates a conflict of interest in the state. Similarly we don't let the state employ prisoners in any sort of for profit endeavor. Back in the day the British had prisoners move large rocks from one side of the prison yard to the other and then back again. That's brutish but there some logic behind it to keep the state from enjoying the activity.
> Similarly we don't let the state employ prisoners in any sort of for profit endeavor. Doesn't the US have prisoners working for well under a dollar an hour in places?
The extremely conflicted US prison system is a great example of why you want to avoid conflicts of interest.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal