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Report on forced organ harvesting in China
51–60 of 199 posts
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#521984 is being played out inside this country if this is true. The horror is beyond imagination since this seems state directed/aided. My only hope is this news spreads like wildfire within its boundaries and citizens of China wake up.
And this wasn’t enough already?
Tiananmen Square protest death toll was 10,000:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42465516
>"Students linked arms but were mown down including soldiers. APCs then ran over bodies time and time again to make 'pie' and remains collected by bulldozer. Remains incinerated and then hosed down drains. "Four wounded girl students begged for their lives but were bayoneted."
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#53If you're going to potentially violate human rights and set up incentives to murder people for profit, saving lives like this is the best reason to do it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.
Not that it makes a moral difference, but the victims aren't all hardened criminals. They are political dissidents, people who follow the wrong religion, and racial minorities. Most of the greatest mass atrocities in world history have been framed as a "tradeoff". Destroying some lives to save others isn't a functioning society, it's a living nightmare.
Honestly, if we were even going to begin to entertain any notions even slightly related to this, I'd want to suggest that if we insist on having the death penalty as a punishment, then those who are put to death should, if suitable, become automatic organ donors.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#54This is an interesting interview with a well known CCP critic that discusses the history of this program and a bunch of other minimally discussed things.
I would encourage people to take the time to watch this.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#55I have read about the possibility of large-scale harvesting of organs from prisoners for a few months now. First thing to note about this particular article is that "The China Tribunal" has no formal or legal standing, it is basically a volunteer organization trying to collect evidence. When they say "Worst Fears [...] Were Just confirmed" they are at best misleading. There has been a notable dearth of reporting by t…
The Chinese government itself has admitted that this was done in the past but they promised to no longer allow it to happen...on multiple occasions. That China did this isn’t really in doubt, the argument is only about whether they still do it. The central government has a hard time getting rid of this practice because they aren’t as omnipotent as they appear, there is a lot of vested interests that localities contin…
Also the "we can get you organs in a day, give us the specific requirements..." is a pretty serious red flag even if there's a high normal donation rate.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
A life saved is not sufficient to counter a murder.
Some countries implement an opt-out system. If you do not want your body to be reused after you die, you have to declare it in advance. This is hugely beneficial for patients. Now, even this hugely emotional article does not talk about murder.
It’s one thing to harvest organs if the patient dies of accidents/natural causes, and personally I am in favour of the opt-out system.
It’s a whole other thing of killing the patient on purpose to harvest their organs.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#571984 is being played out inside this country if this is true. The horror is beyond imagination since this seems state directed/aided. My only hope is this news spreads like wildfire within its boundaries and citizens of China wake up.
What has this got to do with 1984? I don't remember anything about forced organ transplants in there.
Honestly it takes 1984 a step further. We can’t say because they are harvesting organs it doesn’t have the same themes as 1984. This is terrifying.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#58Setting aside the persecutions, torture and possible genocide, which are undoubtedly heinous, something perplexes me: Why do we consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners, but consider harvesting their (now useless) organs to save more lives is ethically abhorrent? I am much more outraged by the fact that they're killing people for political reasons, the fact that they're harvesting their organs afterwards…
> Why do we consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners, but consider harvesting their (now useless) organs to save more lives is ethically abhorrent?
I don't know if the following moral argument would pursuade most people, but I think it does work if you accept it is ethical for the state to execute people in the first place.
It is wrong because the state now derives a material benefit from harvesting the prisoner's organs. This treats the prisoner as an means rather than an end in themselves. This is a bad thing in itself for someone who subscribes to Immanuel Kant's view of morality (or something like it). But it is, in addition, something of a hazard in providing the government with an incentive beyond justice itself to kill people.
The death penalty is still moral in this framework because it is meted out to people who have themselves murdered others, and thus decided that the law to which they hold themselves permits killing, and it is therefore appropriate for the state to treat them as reasonable beings, which means treating them according to their own moral law. (this is a terrible explanation, but I hope it is a good first step. I can try and reply more later if you ask questions.).
The death penalty is not permissible for whatever crime however, only specific ones.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#59If you're going to potentially violate human rights and set up incentives to murder people for profit, saving lives like this is the best reason to do it. The long waiting lists for organs in the US show that our choice is a tradeoff, not a best practice. Insofar as our system is caused by squeamishness and the desire to feel morally pure, it is harming people unnecessarily too.
Not sure why this is being downvoted. It may be a macabre way of looking at it, but it is a valid viewpoint. Poster didn't specify whether they actually felt that way. I agree, in the following sense. A different way to put it - if human rights are to be violated, there better be a damn noble reason for it.
It's a point of view that makes no sense. Murdering one person to save another is not "noble". It negates the entire point of "human rights" in the first place.
You might as well suggest that people who need organs should be able to kill a random person on the street to get them.
Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China
#60A hard line stance on China’s human rights abuses, currency and trade manipulation, and intellectual property theft will be a top requirement for my support of 2020 US presidential candidates.
While I'd imagine you'd ignore U.S. abuses and provocations, (Iran?), I imagine? Is China worse than Saudi Arabia for example? Because I can't imagine U.S. speaking strongly against KSA, can you? The U.S. doesn't really care about human rights, or its own abuse of them, (was any top official prosecuted for Iraq?), so you'd be voting for posturing.
See, this is pretty typical of how the Chinese are told about their own government’s abuses in schools and media: “but what about the other guy?!”.
It’s just not a valid argument. It serves only to change the topic and justify nationalism.