Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#121

Post by elisharobinson » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

x38iq84n wrote: post #110

Retric wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cognitive load is a real thing. People have a finite ability to multitask especially with similar actions. The only possible approach to driving to to not pay attention to most things as you focus on something specific and then cycle through each activity. Further, when you are forced to pay attention to something specific you must spend less time focusing on other things.

Babysitting Autopilot that can unpredictably steer me into a concrete barrier would be more demanding than driving a car that is more predictable.

driving a car that is more predictable which you drove into the baricade, or got rear ended by or side swiped someone on the exit . the avg driver is more deadly than any tesla on autopilot . By the stats .

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#122

Post by elisharobinson » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:06 AM UTC

shoo_pl wrote: post #26

URSpider94 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t know, you’ll learn pretty quickly when you buy one. If you don’t keep your hands on the wheel, it will flash at you, then beep at you, then stop the car. In reality, once you are used to it, it’s actually quite easy to keep a hand on the wheel while using Autopilot.

It's not about how easy it is to put your hand on wheel so that it can detect a bit of force (you can use bottle of water to do that). The difficult part is to stay focused when doing that. If you spent 30 minutes driving to work on a highway, and your car was able to drive itself every day for 2 months, how likely are you to take any reasonable action on 3rd month when something unexpecting happens?

the first instinct when you are moving above 50 kph on a highway, when you see trouble is to hit the brakes . Im not sure you can forget that. braking will pull you out of AP mode.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#123

Post by Quanttek » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:12 AM UTC

elisharobinson wrote: post #120

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #119

>> If IIHS is opposed to the name ‘Autopilot,’ presumably they are equally opposed to the name ‘Automobile. My best attempt to understand this cryptic comment is as saying that Tesla intends "Autopilot" to mean a system for "piloting" an "automobile", unrelated to the common use of the word in aviation, where it's an "automated pilot(ing system)". Even if that is the case, they should be aware of the potential for co…

the paragraph above it clearly states that the users are trained on how to engage and disengage the system. If consumers have a good understanding of the system and still feel that it is better than the competition how can it be an issue of mislabelling

Your comment is very misleading. You are referring to a statement by a *Tesla spokesperson:

> “Tesla provides owners with clear guidance on how to properly use Autopilot, as well as in-car instructions before they use the system and while the feature is in use,” a Tesla spokeswoman said Friday. “If a Tesla vehicle detects that a driver is not engaged while Autopilot is in use, the driver is prohibited from using it for that drive.”

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#124

Post by scotty79 » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:28 AM UTC

jrochkind1 wrote: post #13

So I take it it's NOT okay to take your hands off the wheel with Tesla Autopilot? I am not familiar with the technology. The Tesla page on it ( https://www.tesla.com/autopilot ) takes a while to get to describing what it does , but then says, among other things: > Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically within its lane. And: > With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing po…

> So it's steering... but you're supposed to leave your hands on the wheel anyway?

I do something like that with cruise control. I enable it but I keep my foot resting on the accelerator just in case I have to break suddenly. I'm afraid that if I keep my foot somewhere else, when my reflex kicks in, I won't hit the break pedal.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#125

Post by ujoh1 » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:34 AM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #124

jrochkind1 wrote: post #13

So I take it it's NOT okay to take your hands off the wheel with Tesla Autopilot? I am not familiar with the technology. The Tesla page on it ( https://www.tesla.com/autopilot ) takes a while to get to describing what it does , but then says, among other things: > Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically within its lane. And: > With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing po…

> So it's steering... but you're supposed to leave your hands on the wheel anyway? I do something like that with cruise control. I enable it but I keep my foot resting on the accelerator just in case I have to break suddenly. I'm afraid that if I keep my foot somewhere else, when my reflex kicks in, I won't hit the break pedal.

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Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#126

Post by revscat » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 11:59 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #46

zaroth wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive on AutoPilot every day. The shit I see other drivers doing on the highway blows my mind. Yesterday a guy was trimming his toes. Bare foot up on the dash and just going at it. Can’t. Unsee. Approximately half of drivers are holding a cellphone on their ear, or yawning with a look of utter exhaustion on their face, occasionally rocking out to some great tunes, which is fun when they catch you watching. None of…

100% agree. Almost as bad for me was a recent conversation with a Tesla owner who said he drives his Model 3 to bars instead of taking Uber since it can take him home when he's drunk. The level to which people are abusing the system is phenomenal.

I fail to see how this isn’t a step forward, though. Given that there will always be a subset of people who drink at bars who will drive themselves home, then the availability of things like Autopilot can only help to reduce overall the number of accidents that occur as a result.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#127

Post by BerniceFTrainor » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 12:18 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #16

pseudolus wrote: post #2

The percentage of drivers who think it's safe to nap is small but nonetheless frightening. What are these people thinking?

They are thinking the same thing as people who drive drunk. People can be idiots. You have to actively disable safety measures in order to get the car to drive for any kind of extended period without applying force to the wheel. Anyone caught doing this intentionally should be cited for impaired driving same as a DUI. Then there are the people who legitimately fall asleep at the wheel and AutoPilot saves their lives,…

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Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#128

Post by henrikschroder » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 12:23 PM UTC

FireBeyond wrote: post #82

thaumaturgy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their automated safety systems aren't anything special compared to what most manufactures offer. When I'm trying to figure out which of two really vocal, opposed camps might be more right on some issue, I look for the really hyperbolic statements that are easily refuted but still repeated. 2016: A Tesla's Forward Collision Warning System warns the driver about an impending collision he can't even see yet and starts…

You'll find that indeed most manufacturers offer AEB, forward and rear collision avoidance, many of them offering side collision detection. Subaru, Volvo, Toyota, Audi, Mercedes, for ones I know for a fact. I'm more unsure as to why you think other manufacturers don't do these things.

One reason is that other manufacturers are extremely conservative when it comes to the marketing of these capabilities, in comparison to Tesla who is overpromising a lot.

Another reason is that Teslas are "cool", and get a lot of press in non-automotive circles, which means that a lot of people think they were first with a lot of technology, which simply isn't true.

And a possible third reason is that quite a lot of tech people have been researching and toying with the idea of getting a Tesla, but those same people have never researched similar vehicles from other manufacturers, so they have no idea how they compare.

I had a 2014 Mercedes E-class, its self-driving capabilities was on-par with a 2014 Tesla. However, Tesla offers over-the-air updates of their vehicles, so existing Teslas got better, while my vehicle stayed the same, so that's a point they should have credit for and something they actually do better than most other manufacturers.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#129

Post by henrikschroder » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 12:27 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #116

FireBeyond wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll find that indeed most manufacturers offer AEB, forward and rear collision avoidance, many of them offering side collision detection. Subaru, Volvo, Toyota, Audi, Mercedes, for ones I know for a fact. I'm more unsure as to why you think other manufacturers don't do these things.

Someone who hasn't bought a new car in the last couple of years probably wouldn't be aware of these features. Also for some reason car dealers, at least in the US where I've been buying cars recently, don't seem to highlight these features too much. Perhaps because they're not a way for the dealer to make more money. It can also be quite hard in my experience to get a straight story on exactly what the safety capabil…

I think a lot of car sales people are tech-averse and simply not interested in, or prepared for dealing with the faster consumer cycles of cars.

I recently did a test-drive and the guy maneuvered the car out of the dealer lot by driving backwards and looking out the rear window, completely ignoring the fantastic surround camera and sensor view that popped up on the huge display in the car... Great job selling that feature, buddy.

Re: Study: Tesla Autopilot misleading, overestimated more than similar technology

#130

Post by Shivetya » Sat, Jun 22, 2019, 12:33 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #52

zaroth wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a regular AutoPilot user, it does require active supervision. You need to be looking out the window as it drives you down the highway. It detects minute levels of torque on the wheel, so resting a hand in the wheel is enough to keep it happy. If it doesn’t detect any torque on the wheel it prompts you, and you can touch the wheel or move one of the scrollwheels to let it know you’re paying attention. > In general,…

I would even say sometimes it checks too much. I've driven, actively looking ahead at the road, and then it will beep because I ignored the prompt on the dashboard (below the wheel). The prompt is white at the top of the dashboard and is a white gradient, that looks like glare on the dash. I don't know how these people fall asleep behind the wheel unless they've done something that mimics an active hand on the wheel.…

I have had this happen to but it only goes to emphasize just how much we tune out during long drives. My use of autopilot is to have the equivalent of a back seat driver or co-pilot who is just a bit paranoid. Zoning out is something the AP system won't do but drivers can do.

I look at it this way, how many have been driving on a long trip only to glance in the rear view mirror and see a bridge behind you that you do not truly remember driving under?

I find AP reduces stress of the long drive while adding safety. I do not allow it to change lanes on its own nor do I use navigate on autopilot. Many cars have automatic cruise control, the type that keeps distances from other vehicles, some have lane keeping assist which does as the name suggest, AP is all of that with active steering. Plus the car can drive in some of the worst conditions that are tiresome for human drivers, like at night in the rain with the headlight glare of oncoming cars does not even phase it.

About the article, all those things they asked if people felt safe(r) doing with autopilot, well they actually are safer. People do it already with plain cruise control and regular driving with no overriding system doing the active driving. Do I suggest being inattentive, no, but to suggest it isn't safer with AP is silly. However saying AP replaces a human driver is just as silly.