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Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

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Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I'm in the UK.) I think there's an extra bystander effect if you know there is publicly monitored CCTV. "Why interfere and take a risk, the police know what's happening and will be on the way if it's serious". If I see suspicious behaviour I might stop and watch, intending to intervene if necessary. If there's police nearby, then I'd point it out to them and carry on with my own business. If you think the police alr…

“Stop and watch“ is still intervention. Twice I’ve broken up what seemed to be incipient fights by stopping and staring intently at the aggressor. Unless they are drunk, they don’t want to be observed. They will walk away if someone is staring at them.

This has worked for me to.

I think realising you're being observed can break one out of a cycle of escalation to. That's worked _on_ me as well.

Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#32
post #25
post #21

I would be interested in seeing the difference from small town US to big city US. Having been in both areas I have an opinion the results would be much different.

If intervention is the norm in areas covered by CCTV and we can assume that's mostly urban, does that imply you think small towns would keep to themselves?

Actually yes. Its more of a "he/she asked for it" mentality in a small town and taking things out back / having throwdowns is typical.

Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#33

My theory is that because guns are banned in the UK, the only real way to reduce crime is to have cameras everywhere.

And yet the crime rates in the UK are considerably lower than the US, could it be because guns aren't widely available?

This is exactly my point. Because guns are banned, they need to have cameras everywhere to reduce crime, which seems to be working.

I feel like I can't even have a regular conversation on HN, if it`s against groupthink, without being down voted to death.

It`s sad that a seemingly intellectual group has to be so close-minded.

Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#34
post #23

I think back to the Myth of Kitty Genovese (the case where the New York Times reported a woman was raped and tens of witnesses didn't call the police; a report that was later proven totally false). Another example is that case in Indiana where a stage collapsed at a music festival. Immediately after the collapse, videos shows many people going back to try to get trapped people out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe5…

The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? I've never heard that -- I'd love to see an article or something about this!

There is an excellent episode of "A crime to remember" on Hulu that tells the story in detail.

Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#35
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? I've never heard that -- I'd love to see an article or something about this!

> The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? Worse than a myth: It's an example of something I half-jokingly call "Philosophically True" because it's something repeated and believed in order to bolster a philosophical position, such that it has a truth value even if it's factually wrong because some people are just that resistant to changing their minds. If you want to believe that people are basically shit and have no rede…

> "Philosophically True" because it's something repeated and believed in order to bolster a philosophical position, such that it has a truth value even if it's factually wrong because some people are just that resistant to changing their minds.

I like that a lot. Also explains why people get extremely testy when you try to point out it's not factual. Because then they feel you're attacking their moral center.

> If you believe that external cultural indoctrination is absolutely required for people to develop a moral sense, you have to believe that people are blank slates at birth. This is not true, in that even toddlers have a sense of fairness

Reminds me of this. Capuchin monkey fairness experiment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KSryJXDpZo

Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#36
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? Worse than a myth: It's an example of something I half-jokingly call "Philosophically True" because it's something repeated and believed in order to bolster a philosophical position, such that it has a truth value even if it's factually wrong because some people are just that resistant to changing their minds. If you want to believe that people are basically shit and have no rede…

> "Philosophically True" because it's something repeated and believed in order to bolster a philosophical position, such that it has a truth value even if it's factually wrong because some people are just that resistant to changing their minds. I like that a lot. Also explains why people get extremely testy when you try to point out it's not factual. Because then they feel you're attacking their moral center. > If yo…

> Capuchin monkey fairness experiment.

Right. Humans are social primates so we expect humans to have prosocial instincts, and we expect those instincts to be derived from earlier examples of social primates.

(Googles... )

Hey, Wikipeida has a whole article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequity_aversion_in_animals

> In controlled experiments it has been observed, in varying degrees, in capuchin monkeys, chimpanzees, macaques, marmosets, dogs, wolves, rats, crows and ravens. No evidence of the effect was found in tests with orangutans, owl monkeys, squirrel monkeys, tamarins, kea, and cleaner fish. Due to inconclusive evidence it is assumed that some bonobos, baboons, gibbons, and gorillas may be inequity averse. Disadvantageous inequity aversion is most common, that is, the animal protests when it gets a lesser reward than another animal. But advantageous inequity aversion has been observed as well, in chimpanzees, baboons and capuchins: the animal protests when it gets a better reward. Scientists believe that sensitivity to inequity co-evolved with the ability to cooperate, as it helps to sustain benefitting from cooperation.

As I said, that's pretty much it for the strongest interpretations of tabula rasa: We have innate morality, our ancestors had it back to the dim and distant pre-human prehistory, and the fact it's possible to train kids out of it doesn't prove it wasn't there to begin with. The fact some people don't have it (cf antisocial personality disorder) is proof of a disease process, an acquired or congenital illness, not that those people are "purer" for having no built-in moral sense, or that without society indoctrinating a specific morality we'd all be utterly callous.

Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#37

Maybe because I’m laymen but this website makes zero sense to me. A link/button with the title in file name format which leads to a page with dollar amount to purchase? Purchase what? Is this a study? An essay?

If you are using Shortcuts App, you can also try this shortcut: https://www.reddit.com/r/scihub/comments/altw9l/shortcuts/

Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts

#38
post #8

Probably true, but I think CCTV reduces civil intervention. Would be an interesting study to conduct.

I doubt it, I am actually more inclined to think it's the other way around. My own decision to intervene is mainly driven by my own feeling of safety. So if I am in an environment where is more people, or I perceive is better monitored, I will be more likely to help, because I am less worried to get into trouble.

I'd rather not get involved, if a camera is watching.
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