I would be interested in seeing the difference from small town US to big city US.
Having been in both areas I have an opinion the results would be much different.
Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
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Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#22I think back to the Myth of Kitty Genovese (the case where the New York Times reported a woman was raped and tens of witnesses didn't call the police; a report that was later proven totally false).
Another example is that case in Indiana where a stage collapsed at a music festival. Immediately after the collapse, videos shows many people going back to try to get trapped people out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe5HNtfTdGE
It's really cool that we have people doing this type of researching and showing there's more than just anecdotal evidence that people will respond in these situations.
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#23I think back to the Myth of Kitty Genovese (the case where the New York Times reported a woman was raped and tens of witnesses didn't call the police; a report that was later proven totally false). Another example is that case in Indiana where a stage collapsed at a music festival. Immediately after the collapse, videos shows many people going back to try to get trapped people out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe5…
The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? I've never heard that -- I'd love to see an article or something about this!
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#24I think back to the Myth of Kitty Genovese (the case where the New York Times reported a woman was raped and tens of witnesses didn't call the police; a report that was later proven totally false). Another example is that case in Indiana where a stage collapsed at a music festival. Immediately after the collapse, videos shows many people going back to try to get trapped people out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe5…
The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? I've never heard that -- I'd love to see an article or something about this!
Not a myth, but is filled with inaccuracies. People did call the police (several) and the victim did not die alone.
https://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/482313144/the-witness-exposes...
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#25I would be interested in seeing the difference from small town US to big city US. Having been in both areas I have an opinion the results would be much different.
If intervention is the norm in areas covered by CCTV and we can assume that's mostly urban, does that imply you think small towns would keep to themselves?
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
(I'm in the UK.) I think there's an extra bystander effect if you know there is publicly monitored CCTV. "Why interfere and take a risk, the police know what's happening and will be on the way if it's serious". If I see suspicious behaviour I might stop and watch, intending to intervene if necessary. If there's police nearby, then I'd point it out to them and carry on with my own business. If you think the police alr…
“Stop and watch“ is still intervention. Twice I’ve broken up what seemed to be incipient fights by stopping and staring intently at the aggressor. Unless they are drunk, they don’t want to be observed. They will walk away if someone is staring at them.
I've had the opposite happen. Someone tried to smash my head in with a cinder block because he thought I might take his picture.
He was never caught.
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? I've never heard that -- I'd love to see an article or something about this!
Not a myth, but is filled with inaccuracies. People did call the police (several) and the victim did not die alone. https://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/482313144/the-witness-exposes...
NYT had a really good article on it upon the death of her murderer in jail in 2016 (one of NY state's longest serving prisoners before he died): https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/05/nyregion/winston-moseley-...
That Witness movie sounds similar to this film which was good: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2704816/
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#28I think back to the Myth of Kitty Genovese (the case where the New York Times reported a woman was raped and tens of witnesses didn't call the police; a report that was later proven totally false). Another example is that case in Indiana where a stage collapsed at a music festival. Immediately after the collapse, videos shows many people going back to try to get trapped people out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe5…
The Kitty Genovese story is a myth? I've never heard that -- I'd love to see an article or something about this!
> The Kitty Genovese story is a myth?
Worse than a myth: It's an example of something I half-jokingly call "Philosophically True" because it's something repeated and believed in order to bolster a philosophical position, such that it has a truth value even if it's factually wrong because some people are just that resistant to changing their minds. If you want to believe that people are basically shit and have no redeeming value and will watch a woman get killed in full view without doing anything, the usual story appeals to you, and people saying it's factually wrong won't really sway you.
Another example is how the tabula rasa idea shapes some kinds of moral philosophy: If you believe that external cultural indoctrination is absolutely required for people to develop a moral sense, you have to believe that people are blank slates at birth. This is not true, in that even toddlers have a sense of fairness [1], but if there's an innate morality, well, your favored mode of cultural indoctrination is less important and we can't have that, can we?
[1] https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/do-kids-ha...
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#29This public conflict is VERY hard to watch.
Re: Cross-national CCTV footage shows intervention is the norm in public conflicts
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet the crime rates in the UK are considerably lower than the US, could it be because guns aren't widely available?
That's not the whole story. Here are some numbers: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kin... You'll note that, yes the US has a higher violent crime rate, but other crime rates are higher - some far higher (drug offenses, for example, are 327 times higher in the UK; total crime victims is 25% higher in the UK, etc). So certain types of crime rates are lower - even considerably lower - than the U…
I am 90% certain this fact is incorrect, and cannot find a linked source that claims this:
Drug offenses: 183,419 per 100,000 people