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Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

protonmail.com

171–180 of 226 posts

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#171

Wow, marketing spam from a competitor. We send confidential docs regularly to users, who need access to those docs for perhaps 1 week at most. No one wants / needs to keep these around, but no one goes through their email carefully to delete these items. If that users email was hacked -> they have a big problem. If we can mark the items for a 3 week retention and then expire those items for them, that great - and thi…

There's no need to call Protonmail idiots in order to put across your views on the subject, keep it civil. Plus, it makes your argument look weak if you have to resort to name-calling.

Let me be super clear than.

"Gmail confidential mode is little more than a marketing strategy."

FALSE - This type of approach has real and direct security benefits. The fact that proton can't see understand that makes them idiots.

"Gmail’s confidential mode is little more than a marketing trick designed to pacify users concerned about privacy."

FALSE - Many business users using google are less concerned about privacy than they are about SECURITY. In the business context, most privacy is already given up, your employer can go through your emails. They can vault them up, do e-discovery on them etc etc. These aren't folks fighting off nation states. These are folks who someone in the office WILL click the bogus link and have their account taken over - and the business wants to reduce the blast radius.

Saying this is a marketing "trick" is silly and the fact that proton can't see that makes them idiots.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people who have taken photos of protected documents with their phones to send to their team, because IT couldn’t get their permissions working properly. It seems like it’s not worth the risk to break an obvious rule like that, but when you’re the manager the responsibility lands on you to get your team the info they need.

What's the "risk"? You're going to get in trouble? Get a talking to? The risk is near zero.

Yes, that's the risk exactly. If you start taking pictures of PHI on your phone over and over eventually your manager like the one above you is going to get fed up and drive you or fire you out of a job.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#173
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recipients who have malicious programs on their computer may still be able to copy or download your messages or attachments. Recipients who do not have malicious programs on their computer also may still be able to copy or download your messages or attachments.

It is using "malicious" to mean "intending to circumvent your intention to keep this email confidential." Is there a different word that could be substituted to maintain that meaning?

Actually, I was just pointing out the tautology B -> (A -> B). If you have B, then sure, A implies B, and not-A also implies B.

Although on further consideration, my previous comment may actually be wrong: "malicious programs" includes ones that attempt to violate the user's right to copy, and recipients who do not have the malicious program Gmail on their computer might not be able to copy or download your messages or attachments.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as a worker in a corporation, the chances that you would want an email so badly that you start breaking more corporate rules trying to get a copy of an email is very unlikely at least for common everyday work. This could be a useful feature when dealing with PHI, legal, HR, etc.

>as a worker in a corporation, the chances that you would want an email so badly that you start breaking more corporate rules trying to get a copy of an email is very unlikely This seems like it should be true, but having worked with end users in the past I would not take this for granted

You're right? I guess we should just allow end users to do whatever they want. /s

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow me to sell your organisation some VR goggles with iris-reading DRM protection. Your browser won't display on any other screen. And Google Services won't work in any other browser.

This is an arms race. Allow me to use an iris app on my smartphone to defeat your iris-reading DRM while I take a video of the content. It's not possible to do what Gmail wants to do without a SCIF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_Compartmented_Inform...

You're making broadly wrong assumptions about what Gmail wants to do here.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#176
post #113
post #75

This makes as much sense as the Outlook recall feature did. User Bob would like to recall email titled, "that sex party last night" Riiiight

Recalls make a lot of sense if mass announcements are sent with mistakes, so people aren't confused by having the incorrect version in a busy inbox.

Yes, exactly.

For benign purposes, some sense is seen.

Otherwise, the whole idea is silly.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#177
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust the company who is under global regulatory scrutiny 24/7, and watched like hawks by every major news organization in the world for them to slip up. If Protonmail fucks up, there's not going to be a NYT article about it.

Think about the different user bases and sources of revenue. If google screws up, they might see a small blip in add revenue before recovering. If Protonmail screws up, then they'll lose paying customers which is their only source (presumably) of revenue.

I can't say for sure, but I'd guess that Gmail has many more paying customers than protonmail. This feature exists specifically for those paying (enterprise/gsuite) customers.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#178
post #131

All of this applies to making a new protonmail account too Requires SMS verification or an impassable captcha loop if over TOR And payment with a credit card The cryptocurrency payment option with non-user identifiable info only being available to existing protonmail accounts where that info was already harvested So it is ironic to see protonmail calling out those specific things about gmail confidential

Protonmail does those thongs to try and prevent bad actors or bots from making encrypted accounts to hide their shady tracks. Not for data collection that they'll sell for a profit. Don't be so glib as to state you can't see the difference.

The point is they flat out lie in this article about requiring it.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#179

The point of confidential mode is for corporate users. When the CEO sends out that confidential mail to the company, it adds a speed bump to users who are about to copy out data that they have been told they should not, so they get a chance to realize they should not do this, and then removes all plausible deniability when they choose to bypass that speed bump.

It is almost as if calling it "confidential" may be misleading.

Re: Gmail confidential mode is not secure or private

#180
post #115
post #3

"Options for recipients to forward, copy, print, or download this email's contents will be disabled." I simply don't understand how they think they can get away with this foolishness. I can forward, copy, print, or download ANYTHING that passes over my ethernet cables. Your silly UI will ultimately never stop me from wiresharking my own cables in my own home and doing whatever the hell I want with any bits of informa…

Dude, come on. You do understand. The feature is like a fence in a yard. It separates the honest from the dishonest, forcing the clueless/negligent/reckless to pick a side. Nobody believes fences stop criminals, and nobody believes Gmail has ended the DRM arms race.

Can you please edit out personal swipes from your HN comments? This post would be just fine without the first two bits.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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