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Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

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Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#141

Post by boybd »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #130

This will make me more likely to spin up a ReactOS VM if I really want to run any Windows only software, since running Windows in a VM is very resource consuming. I was looking at computers at Walmart with only 4GB of RAM, the task manager said 3 GB out of 4 GB were being used, and it was just on standby. I don't know what happened around Windows 8 to 10 but having 8 GB of RAM is too little for Windows, the OS takes…

If ReactOS ever reaches the point where it can be used instead of Wine, I might as well just boot ReactOS and drop Linux completely.

I like Windows but I don't like the way it's heading. A perpetual XP/7 would be great.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#142

Post by coldpie »

dooglius wrote: post #42

Presumably, the kernel will continue to support 32-bit, it's just that Ubuntu won't package various 32-bit libraries anymore. But, can't Wine just bundle any library dependencies itself?

> But, can't Wine just bundle any library dependencies itself?

Yes. Any volunteers? :)

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#143

Post by djsumdog »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #101
EamonnMR wrote: post #10

WINE needs 32 bit support. The bulk of windows programs that people still care about are from the 32 bit era, and as they point out many 64 bit apps use 32 bit installers. Maybe it's time for x86 box like DOSbox.

What's interesting about this is... doesn't WINE also support Win16 applications? My understanding was that it does, yet it doesn't seem to require 16 bit libraries from the host OS...

Windows doesn't even support 16-bit applications (unless you use 32-bit Windows with NTVDM enabled).

There was another post on here a few months back about someone getting Win16 apps working on modern 64-bit Windows machines:

https://hackernoon.com/win3mu-part-1-why-im-writing-a-16-bit...

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#144

Post by asark »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #48
Arkanosis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Wine from time to time, because some vendors (especially hardware vendors) still expect you to have Windows for silly reasons (eg. to write an update file on an USB key for a car GPS — I'm looking at you, Renault — or to unlock a phone bootloader — I'm looking at you, Xiaomi). That's a life saver in such cases and I can't state how grateful I am for Wine to exist. And no, I won't run Windows in a VM as I refuse…

You can grab free Windows VMs that Microsoft provides for browser testing. They expire after 90 days, but they are usable for the purposes you mention (except gaming). https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v...

Used this to run some Windows-only NES Classic / SNES Classic "hacking" program thingy (hakchi2? Something like that) to add more games to those two devices. Worked great. Wine was a no-go because the program itself did some stuff with (Windows) drivers when needed. VirtualBox. Worked great. I have a Win10 license and could have dug it out but this was easier.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#145

Post by makomk »

coldpie wrote: post #84
richard_todd wrote: post #8

I immediately wondered about macOS, which is dropping 32-bit support as well. One of the first links I found[1] seems to say that there is no 64-bit wine on macOS regardless of library issues, due to an ABI incompatibility. So on the surface it seems like the world is shifting under wine's feet, and they are going to need to do a second level of emulation eventually to keep 32-bit stuff running. [1]: https://forum.wi…

The change Ubuntu is proposing is far less harsh than what macOS is doing. Unlike macOS, Ubuntu will still run 32-bit processes, you just have to provide all of the userspace libraries. Applications like Steam for Linux already do this for binary compatibility reasons, so their usecase won't change much. Wine's official Ubuntu packages currently rely on the OS to provide these userspace libraries. They would "only" n…

Remember, though, that the hardware-specific OpenGL library for the user's specific graphics hardware is also a userspace library that has to be provided in a 32-bit version. Even Steam doesn't bother shipping that because it's just not feasible. Without at least some library support from distros it's just not practical to continue 32-bit compatibility.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#146

Post by asark »

boybd wrote: post #128
bluGill wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep changing the goalpost. Odds are if you were willing to live with the versions you were using 15 years ago you would find Wine works just fine. Probably even if you just stuck with the versions you were using 5 years ago.

Actually no, I play DX9 games from 15 years ago and they are still, well, not there yet.

Some even earlier directx games are damn near unplayable anywhere but real hardware, last time I checked. Heavily tied to a handful of video cards from a span of just a few years. Looking at you, Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries. I don't think VirtualBox even works in those cases.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#147

Post by peterangular »

fifnir wrote: post #122
peterangular wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're incapable tools, plain and simple.

That's all I needed for an answer, I inadvertently annoyed a lot of people it seems!

Yeah - and for some reason you got downvoted into oblivion for what was a really really simple/valid question. Sorry on that one =(

Welcome to HN though - it's filled with really really smart people who want to be right about everything. If I'm being honest I'm one of them too ;)

Cheers!

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#148

Post by makomk »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #101
EamonnMR wrote: post #10

WINE needs 32 bit support. The bulk of windows programs that people still care about are from the 32 bit era, and as they point out many 64 bit apps use 32 bit installers. Maybe it's time for x86 box like DOSbox.

What's interesting about this is... doesn't WINE also support Win16 applications? My understanding was that it does, yet it doesn't seem to require 16 bit libraries from the host OS...

One of the little quirks of x86 is that you can run 16-bit code just fine within an otherwise 32-bit process, and the Win16 API is small enough that it's practical to write wrappers for all of it that just call into the 32-bit functions. This isn't feasible for 32-bit code on 64-bit systems for a whole bunch of reasons.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#149

Post by EpicEng »

pjmlp wrote: post #114
EamonnMR wrote: post #10

WINE needs 32 bit support. The bulk of windows programs that people still care about are from the 32 bit era, and as they point out many 64 bit apps use 32 bit installers. Maybe it's time for x86 box like DOSbox.

I wonder which ones, my Windows boxes are pretty much 32 bit free, except for when there isn't an alternative.

>except for when there isn't an alternative

Probably those ones

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#150

Post by makomk »

asark wrote: post #144
toomuchtodo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can grab free Windows VMs that Microsoft provides for browser testing. They expire after 90 days, but they are usable for the purposes you mention (except gaming). https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v...

Used this to run some Windows-only NES Classic / SNES Classic "hacking" program thingy (hakchi2? Something like that) to add more games to those two devices. Worked great. Wine was a no-go because the program itself did some stuff with (Windows) drivers when needed. VirtualBox. Worked great. I have a Win10 license and could have dug it out but this was easier.

Amusingly enough, all of the low-level hardware access stuff in hakchi2 seems to be done through Windows ports of various Linux-based libraries and tools. The Windows drivers are just there to emulate the normal Linux APIs for low-level USB access. In principle, it would be possible to just chop out all the layers of emulation and drop in the original Linux USB access library using the actual Linux APIs (compiled as a Wine-style DLL so the Windows code could use it) and everything should work fine.
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