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Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

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Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#41

Post by Newtonip »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #25
momokoko wrote: post #7

I'm curious about Wine's usage and relevance at this point in the Linux desktop story. My assumption is that Linux users(myself included) that use Windows applications(not games), tend to just run a VM in seamless mode for Windows functionality. I would be curious if others had any insight(anecdotal or otherwise) about Wine usage these days.

I run mIRC on Wine. I know, I know, there are plenty of Linux native IRC clients. In fact, mIRC has been quite stagnant lately. But to me, its UI is still unsurpassed (20 years of muscle memory also help), and it has less latency than alternatives (even with Wine).

I've been doing the same thing forever.

mIRC is the first client I ever used and I tried other ones (XChat, BitchX since running irc in a terminal sounded appealing, Konversation) and they just felt wrong so I stuck with mIRC.

It's been running perfectly in WINE since the late '90s.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#43

Post by roywiggins »

ionised wrote: post #35
scrollaway wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find asking these kinds of questions to people using professional software like that is akin to asking a professional c++ programmer "why not lisp?". Imagine you spend a career training on something and random people just tell you to do something else.

You spend a career training in skills, not training in specific tools. If you limiting yourself to a single tool and refusing to learn anything else you are doing yourself a disservice.

The problem is that everyone has their favorite tools, and a barrage of "what about " when you are in no mood to invest the significant time and effort on a standing start for when you've got your existing toolset warmed up already.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#44

Post by Arkanosis »

momokoko wrote: post #7

I'm curious about Wine's usage and relevance at this point in the Linux desktop story. My assumption is that Linux users(myself included) that use Windows applications(not games), tend to just run a VM in seamless mode for Windows functionality. I would be curious if others had any insight(anecdotal or otherwise) about Wine usage these days.

I use Wine from time to time, because some vendors (especially hardware vendors) still expect you to have Windows for silly reasons (eg. to write an update file on an USB key for a car GPS — I'm looking at you, Renault — or to unlock a phone bootloader — I'm looking at you, Xiaomi). That's a life saver in such cases and I can't state how grateful I am for Wine to exist.

And no, I won't run Windows in a VM as I refuse to pay the “Windows tax”.

(Also for games, I still rely a lot on Wine — even if mostly hidden behind Lutris these days.)

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#45

Post by peterangular »

scrollaway wrote: post #26
fifnir wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not GIMP and Inkscape?

I find asking these kinds of questions to people using professional software like that is akin to asking a professional c++ programmer "why not lisp?". Imagine you spend a career training on something and random people just tell you to do something else.

Err ... yeah - now you make it sound like I'm incapable of learning/trying new software.

Yes I've tried those alternative solutions and they don't have the same sort of polish and workflow as everything else. Find me ONE professional graphics designer who works 100% in GIMP and Inkscape - they just don't have the same feature set. If you do find people using GIMP and Inkscape in the professional world they almost always use them in conjunction with Adobe tools.

I have a specific list of needed features that do not have parity. "Doing something else" isn't an option when you don't have the tools to do your job/can't deliver for the customer because the software can't support what the printer needs...

In all reality I'm constantly adding new capability to my gfx workflow via software/hardware. I've switched completely over to Procreate on an iPad to do illustration. "Doing something else" is something I'm willing to do if it has value.

GIMP and Inkscape provide zero value to me - they're 100% neutered solutions/"toys" in the professional world. Open source folks (as much as I am one myself) want to think that there's a 1:1 tool for every piece of pro-level software out there and it's simply not the case =|

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#46

Post by snarfy »

dorfsmay wrote: post #36
snarfy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still run LTSpice on Linux using Wine. That's about it though. With the advent of WSL on Windows and my professional need to use both Linux and Windows, I don't have a lot of reasons to use Wine anymore, or desktop Linux for that matter. Windows + WSL is good enough, and better than the other way around of Linux + Wine or a VM. I fear Wine will become more and more irrelevant as time passes. Killing 32bit support d…

For work in Windows shop,sure, until I need Docker, although I could with faster I/O! For home and companies that don't architect themselves around specific workstation OS, Linux all the way. I personally rarely use Wine, if ever, but had to use it for my kids requiring software that was available on Windows only.

I do a lot of varied development, some of it requiring visual studio.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#47

Post by olliej »

But why not just do a translation — 32bit x86 to 64bit x86 doesn’t meaningfully restrict available instructions, then just* plant a bunch trampolines in the low 4gig to the real implementations in the 64bit adds space.

* I know this isn’t a trivial “just” but it seems like a plausibly achievable approach to me

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#48

Post by toomuchtodo »

Arkanosis wrote: post #44
momokoko wrote: post #7

I'm curious about Wine's usage and relevance at this point in the Linux desktop story. My assumption is that Linux users(myself included) that use Windows applications(not games), tend to just run a VM in seamless mode for Windows functionality. I would be curious if others had any insight(anecdotal or otherwise) about Wine usage these days.

I use Wine from time to time, because some vendors (especially hardware vendors) still expect you to have Windows for silly reasons (eg. to write an update file on an USB key for a car GPS — I'm looking at you, Renault — or to unlock a phone bootloader — I'm looking at you, Xiaomi). That's a life saver in such cases and I can't state how grateful I am for Wine to exist. And no, I won't run Windows in a VM as I refuse…

You can grab free Windows VMs that Microsoft provides for browser testing. They expire after 90 days, but they are usable for the purposes you mention (except gaming).

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/v...

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#49

Post by striking »

momokoko wrote: post #7

I'm curious about Wine's usage and relevance at this point in the Linux desktop story. My assumption is that Linux users(myself included) that use Windows applications(not games), tend to just run a VM in seamless mode for Windows functionality. I would be curious if others had any insight(anecdotal or otherwise) about Wine usage these days.

A lot of people are extremely dependent on Wine (myself included) to run Steam games through Proton. I have a VFIO-enabled VM reserved for games that don't work, but it's much more convenient to be able to just play games on Linux.

Re: Wine Developers Concerned with Ubuntu Dropping 32-Bit Support

#50

Post by peterangular »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #32
fifnir wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why not GIMP and Inkscape?

I’m not the person you replied to but... I use Inkscape and Gimp at work, very tiny minor part of a small part of my workflow. Today Inkscape was crashing when I tried to rotate a spline with six nodes in an otherwise empty workspace. I’m probably going to buy a commercial vector graphics app even though my employer won’t pay for it because that sort of bug is a show stopper right when I need the program most.

> Today Inkscape was crashing when I tried to rotate a spline with six nodes in an otherwise empty workspace.

Yep - similar experience with Inkscape. I mean - yeah it's fun and it's pretty capable but it's just really not capable of real work. It's a toy/open source "entry-level" piece of software.

Now imagine someone who needs to crank out 40 unique pieces of vector art within 4-5 days. There's NO WAY they can AFFORD to use Inkscape with those sort of stability issues.

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