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In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

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Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#131

Post by blondin »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #54
derefr wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any way you could just make it physiologically untenable for anyone to stay in your office past 5PM? Right around 6PM at my apartment, the downstairs tenants light up with the most awful, stanky skunk-weed. You literally cannot keep the windows open; and yet, in the middle of summer and no central AC, you can't afford to be there with them closed, either. So, in effect, my neighbour forces me to ensure I'm n…

Maybe just turn the lights and power to the router and switched off with a timer at 5pm?

with the heat we have around here this summer, just shutting down the AC would make people wanna go home lol

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#132

Post by rosser »

belorn wrote: post #122
rosser wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had numerous conversations with all manner of avowedly feminist-leaning folk, where both "toxic masculinity" and "toxic femininity" were under discussion, including particularly the ways they exacerbate and reinforce one another. These include people with graduate degrees in icky, feely things like Gender Studies. It turns out, when you use those terms to describe traits, rather than as accusations of assholer…

That sounds a bit like how African Americans can use the N-word. The word has different meaning depending on who is saying it, who is the recipient, and the relation the two individuals have.

> The word has different meaning depending on...

All words do, to some extent. "The greatest problem in communication is the illusion that it has happened at all." — George Bernard Shaw

I'm not sure it's much like the n-word beyond the intent of the utterer, though. I've been called "My n-word" before, by people who "get" to use that word, yet I'm white. I still wouldn't presume to use it back (for myriad reasons, most of which would be tangential, at best, to this discussion — yet more reason I don't find it so relevant).

My point has more to do with whether the term is being used constructively (or at least critically, in the sense of analysis, not of berating), versus whether it's being used as some kind of accusation of inherent badness. Because, basically every time the concept comes up, people leap into the conversation taking it that way.

Anyone who feels moved to can talk about "toxic [whatever]ity". How that conversation goes probably depends at least as much on what they mean by it as it does their audience.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#133

Post by guardiangod »

When I was in Japan a few months ago, the TV channels were hyping up the show. One of the segments had the very well-respected lead actress (Yuriko Yoshitaka) going to OL (office lady) bars after work hour and had her talk to the OLs there.

All the OLs there immediately recognized her and showed her more respect than a what a typical Japanese celebrity would receive in similar situation. My guess was that the actress was older, and was known for her strong personality and work ethic, and the OLs respected her for it.

Anyway they started sharing their war stories and asked the actress for suggestions. It's quite an enlightening experience for me as I wasn't very familiar with Japanese OL culture. Some of the stories were startling.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#134

Post by fzeroracer »

dTal wrote: post #124
fzeroracer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the point? It's a well defined term. Toxic masculinity is connected to the masculine roles society forces on men and women. I'm not sure what else you'd call it, because the entire point is that it has everything to do with masculinity. Hence, toxic masculinity. But again, anyone can perpetuate it.

Seems to me that if you're taking completely non-gender-specific toxic behavior like belittling employees for not staying late, and assigning it the label "masculinity", it is you who is engaging in the harmful stereotypes.

But this behavior stems from toxic masculinity. The culture of overwork in Japan has been predominantly a male phenomenon which is why Karoshi tends to occur among men.

However as women enter into the workforce they have to adapt these same norms in order to survive which is how toxic masculinity affects them as well.

The culture of overwork stems from the masculine stereotype of a man having to be the sole provider for the household which also means that they're expected to work extra hard and conform in ways that society demands. This is a textbook example of toxic masculinity. Another example is how some companies in Japan essentially demand you go out drinking with your superiors in order to keep up this facade. You can't talk about fixing issues stemming from male stereotypes without talking about masculinity. And as a man who has received insults and belittlement for having long hair, what else would you call that but a function of toxic masculinity?

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#135

Post by blondin »

jjuhl wrote: post #76
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attitude towards taking time off, frankly. I don’t mind busting my ass at work, it’s fun, but the looks you get when you take more than a week or two of vacation at a time :-/

Where I work (Denmark); it's more the looks you get if you only take one or two weeks off or if you constantly stay in the office past 7hrs. Over working is not healthy and you are not productive anyway. Work (at most) the 37.5hrs/week (maybe 40 if there's a crunch) you are paid for and take your 6 weeks of yearly vacation that you are entitled to (plus holidays) - is what I'd recommend and what my manager pushes. I…

6 weeks of yearly vacation! you guys have it good lol

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#137

Post by megablast »

merpnderp wrote: post #42
phkahler wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get someone (the government in this case) to care (change rules) it sometimes helps to frame a problem in a way that affects them. Maybe?

That's sad that a government wouldn't see its citizens being robbed as a problem that affects them, as governments are directly responsible for the regulatory environment in which we all do business.

If people allow themselves to be robbed, and millions do everyday, there is nothing the government can do about it, just as if they are robbed by a mugger. If people aren't reporting it, then nothing will change.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#138

Post by apsdsm »

totaldude87 wrote: post #65

One question i am asking repeatedly is what is exactly the work they do for 5 extended hours? i have seen people barely work 4 out of 8 hours and being super productive!

Either almost literally nothing, or the work that should have been covered by hiring more staff. It’s either of those extremes and as far as I’ve seen (working in various Japanese offices for almost a decade now) rarely anything between those.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#139

Post by belorn »

rosser wrote: post #132
belorn wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a bit like how African Americans can use the N-word. The word has different meaning depending on who is saying it, who is the recipient, and the relation the two individuals have.

> The word has different meaning depending on... All words do, to some extent. "The greatest problem in communication is the illusion that it has happened at all." — George Bernard Shaw I'm not sure it's much like the n-word beyond the intent of the utterer, though. I've been called "My n-word " before, by people who "get" to use that word, yet I'm white. I still wouldn't presume to use it back (for myriad reasons, m…

It not really about the intent, but rather how the intent is perceived.

The reason to not use the N-word is for me identical to toxic masculinity. Most recipients and people who happen to be near won't interpret it in any positive way. Both are unproductive for meaningful discourse and leads to a hostile environment. Since people who use those term is usually well aware of the reaction, it must be assumed that it is the speakers intention is to cause harm.

Re: In Japan, It’s a Riveting TV Plot: Can a Worker Go Home on Time?

#140

Post by esoterica »

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #40
antidesitter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument doesn’t really make sense.

1) paid time is taxed 2) unpaid overtime is not taxed 3) untaxed work effectively evades taxes 4) unpaid overtime is tax evasion. which step don't you agree with?

1) Wages are taxed, not work. If there is no money paid there is no tax evasion.

2) Unpaid overtime is not really unpaid unless your employment agreement explicitly states that you are not supposed to work more than 40 hours. If you get paid $100k to work 50 hours, then you are getting paid $100k to work 50 hours, not $100k to work the first 40 and $0 to work the next 10. Your comp is payment all the hours you work, not just the first 40.

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