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The V Programming Language

vlang.io

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Re: The V Programming Language

#81

Post by gingerBill »

amedvednikov wrote: post #76
gingerBill wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am the Odin creator. Please don't accuse me of spreading lies when all I have done is shown that your language is just "Not as Advertised", which I originally stated in this issue: https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/35 Note: You also deleted many comments by other individuals criticizing your claims in that issue too.

"Many comments" (2). Repeating the same lies and misinformation. Most features requiring AST? Really? Codegeneration not possible to implement json decoding? It's just as ridiculous as claims here like V depening on glfw and freetype.

JSON decoding of the kind you want requires either run time type information or a high level metaprogramming system, of which you store the data for the types in a sort of tree, which you could call a typed abstract syntax tree (typed AST).

Stating that V has no dependencies and then requiring dependencies means the original statement is false.

Re: The V Programming Language

#82

Post by kingkong2022 »

amedvednikov wrote: post #69
kingkong2022 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol. Why don't you also subtract the size of the stdlib from that. Or have you already done it. I assume the compiler does not require the stdlib to build an empty V file? Then congrats you just reduced the size of the compiler some more.

Where am I subtracting it?

Yeah you don't. You never added the size of the dependencies (like clang) to the size of the compiler.

And thats what I am saying. You don't even need to add the size of your stdlib. A compiler does not include the stdlib as per your definition . So your compiler is actually much less than 400kb.

Re: The V Programming Language

#83

Post by amedvednikov »

kingkong2022 wrote: post #80
amedvednikov wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a single valid discrepency

Lol what? Why did you remove the release then? Isn't that because you want to clean up the readme before re-releasing it? Anyways, I am done talking to you.

Yes I delayed the release by 2 days to clean up readme. "Lol"

Re: The V Programming Language

#84

Post by kingkong2022 »

lajawfe wrote: post #51
truth_seeker wrote: post #50

No null No global variables No undefined values No undefined behavior No variable shadowing Bounds checking Option/Result types Generics Immutable variables by default Pure functions by default Immutable structs by default me> Wow. That's a good feature set to have !

Yes, a very good feature set "to have". I think, at this point not even half of them are implemented. The author is doing a major disservice by presenting as if everything is complete in the main website.

Why is this downvoted? Everybody can go to the playground and see that most features are not implemented yet.

Re: The V Programming Language

#85

Post by lifthrasiir »

gingerBill wrote: post #79
amedvednikov wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hardly call it a drama. Claims like it's not possible to build features without AST or codegen json decoders are just ridiculous.

That is not what I stated in the issue. For the kind of features that you wanted in your language, not just generics, requires a form of AST (abstract syntax tree), and if you language does not have an AST, which is technically possible, then you cannot have a lot of the features you have been advertising.

I should stress that that is also your misconception. For example, you can implement generics without an AST if you don't care about performance; codegen can either output a single binary mandatorily requiring a sort of vtable (therefore every parametric code will be indirected), or output a partial binary with holes where holes will be patched later (much faster but disallows optimization across hole boundaries).

You should have framed your question as follows: those features can be implemented without an AST, but an AST is a standard and reasonable way to do them and not using an AST would require a strong rationale. So what's that rationale? (And amedvednikov, this is my question for you.)

Re: The V Programming Language

#86

Post by amedvednikov »

gingerBill wrote: post #81
amedvednikov wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Many comments" (2). Repeating the same lies and misinformation. Most features requiring AST? Really? Codegeneration not possible to implement json decoding? It's just as ridiculous as claims here like V depening on glfw and freetype.

JSON decoding of the kind you want requires either run time type information or a high level metaprogramming system, of which you store the data for the types in a sort of tree, which you could call a typed abstract syntax tree (typed AST). Stating that V has no dependencies and then requiring dependencies means the original statement is false.

> JSON decoding of the kind you want requires either run time type information

No it doesn't.

> Stating that V has no dependencies and then requiring dependencies.

For the 10th time. THERE ARE NO DEPENDENCIES. You build V with `clang v.c`.

Jesus Christ.

Re: The V Programming Language

#87

Post by gingerBill »

amedvednikov wrote: post #78
gingerBill wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I originally did not call this project as fraudulent rather "This is not as advertised" which talked about here: https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/35 Note: some of the comments on that issue have been deleted by the v-lang creator as they were criticizing the claims made. However, advertising a product can do something and then releasing it stating it cannot do it yet, is one thing, but accepting money for a product…

Classic.

Stop advertising your language as being more capable than it is.

That is the only complaint. You are advertising under false pretenses and asking for money for early access to a product (through Patreon) which does match what is advertised.

Re: The V Programming Language

#88

Post by esimov »

soup10 wrote: post #21
59nadir wrote: post #9

I find these languages that are developed behind closed doors and have no source published a bit frustrating. Even more so when they make big promises. Just like you can no longer charge for compiler, I don't think it's possible in the future to not publish the source. The truth is, there are plenty of actual open source alternatives to C (zig, et al.), what makes some shadowy language a reasonable alternative?

99% of new programming languages are "someone thought it would be fun to make a new programming language" with no real effort to make it genuinely useful and good for real world use

99% of percent of the new programming languages are nothing more than a syntactic sugar over an existing language, and 99% percent of their developers are developing without any real use case and. I suppose they are made only to collect some money (by donations eventually). As they are developed they are immediately forgotten.

Re: The V Programming Language

#89

Post by lifthrasiir »

amedvednikov wrote: post #83
kingkong2022 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol what? Why did you remove the release then? Isn't that because you want to clean up the readme before re-releasing it? Anyways, I am done talking to you.

Yes I delayed the release by 2 days to clean up readme. "Lol"

This is the first time I've ever heard of why the source release was delayed. I have also managed to see the related issue [1], which was posted too late. You should have said at the first time. [2]

You have instantly earned much reputation by releasing Volt at the first time; that reputation is much easier to lose as well. People easily gets disappointed, no matter what you have achieved (or think that you can achieved); you should be very careful. Or you can stack much reputation that your mistake or short-sighted action doesn't harm yourself.

[1] https://github.com/vlang/v/issues/287

[2] Not that I like this form of release. Proprietary languages simply don't work in the modern world.

Re: The V Programming Language

#90

Post by lifthrasiir »

amedvednikov wrote: post #55
AndyKelley wrote: post #22

[flagged]

Wow, calling me a fraud and a scam artist based on these "facts"?.. The compiler has ZERO dependencies, as stated on the website. You can build it with `clang v.c`. Do you really think the compiler needs glfw or freetype to function? It's for the graphics library to build things like the tetris.v example. As for clang, It was made very clear that V compiles to C in addition to emitting native code, and that it's much…

> Hot code reloading will be available on June 22.

What the heck, so you have claimed that it's just a readme or source cleanup but that was actually a huge missing feature. You said that you have high standards [1], but you don't seem to have high standards on what you say.

[1] https://blog.vlang.io/post/13/Why-isn't-everything-already-o...

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