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Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

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Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#71

Post by 1337biz »

amayne wrote: post #65
bubblewrap wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, how long does the outlining take? I've read a similar notion before (Doctorow claiming to write a book in a year by writing 20 minutes per day - but he also has a plan what to write beforehand). I am curious if outlining doesn't really count as work in the minds of many writers?

I spend anywhere from a few days to a few weeks working on an outline. This is while doing other things.

How do you writer outlines. Is there a process. Or are you just jumping from idea to idea? Is there any good guide on how to come up with them?

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#72

Post by umvi »

hypocrazybr wrote: post #37
umvi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I myself write books in Markdown. Each chapter has a markdown file, the book is version controlled with Git, there is a "build script" that does a "build" (in this case it's a shell script that concatenates the markdown files and runs them through pandoc and calibre CLIs to generate eBooks and PDFs). When I send to my editor I just tell her to modify the files as she sees fit. When I get them back I put the new files…

Would you mind sharing this script? I am moving all my notes to markdown and I would like to setup something like that

It's more of a haphazard set of custom scripts I'm afraid, they are pretty messy. I really should clean them up and host on GitHub or something. But, just to get you started, here's one of my scripts (a batch script I use to generate a kindle book on Windows):

    :: Convert Markdown to DOCX format, adding a pagebreak at every \newpage
    pandoc -f markdown -t docx --filter=pandoc-docx-pagebreakpy -o build.docx ^
        foreword.md ^
        preface.md ^
        acknowledgments.md ^
        part_a.md ^
        1.md ^
        2.md ^
        3.md
    
    
    :: File needs to be opened in Word, saved, and then closed to generate physical Table of Contents :/
    @echo off
    echo Please open build.docx in Word, save, and then close.
    pause
    
    :: Set e-book metadata
    ebook-meta build.docx --authors "First M. Last" --author-sort "Last, First M." --title "Book Title" --title-sort "Book Title"
    
    :: Convert DOCX to MOBI (Kindle)
    :: --share-not-sync Makes it so cover shows up in Kindle for PC but also breaks Kindle WhisperSync. Remove if you want WhisperSync.
    :: See https://manual.calibre-ebook.com/faq.html#the-covers-for-my-mobi-files-have-stopped-showing-up-in-kindle-for-pc-kindle-for-android-ipad-etc
    :: --cover "media/cover.jpg" --share-not-sync
    ebook-convert build.docx build.mobi

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#73

Post by amayne »

1337biz wrote: post #71
amayne wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend anywhere from a few days to a few weeks working on an outline. This is while doing other things.

How do you writer outlines. Is there a process. Or are you just jumping from idea to idea? Is there any good guide on how to come up with them?

First I write a couple sentence mission statement about what the book is about, the character’s journey, the resolution, etc. This is my way of keeping track if the book is on course or not. Does every chapter serve that mission?

I then start with notecards and begin with the big questions: What’s the major conflict of the book? What are my main character’s conflicts? What are the conflicts of each act? I then break these down into chapters. Every chapter has a smaller conflict and resolution.

On the chapter break downs I ask what the character is trying to accomplish. Does it work out? How does the outcome change the story?

When I do my chapter-by-chapter breakdown the characters are driving the story - this is what makes it fun for me to write. Instead of me pushing a character from point A to B, it feels like the characters are driving the plot.

Using this approach I almost always redo the last 30% of the outline when I get to it because the characters have made smarter choices than I the writer had planned. I’m very into writing from a Theory of Mind approach.

Let me reiterate that while this approach works great for me, it may not work for everyone. Some people love to write without outlines because they just want to jam on the keyboard. That’s just as valid as any other approach - although I’d like to point out that just because a pro writer says they don’t outline doesn’t mean they don’t have an innate sense of structure in their head. We often don’t know what we know.

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#74

Post by 1337biz »

amayne wrote: post #73
1337biz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you writer outlines. Is there a process. Or are you just jumping from idea to idea? Is there any good guide on how to come up with them?

First I write a couple sentence mission statement about what the book is about, the character’s journey, the resolution, etc. This is my way of keeping track if the book is on course or not. Does every chapter serve that mission? I then start with notecards and begin with the big questions: What’s the major conflict of the book? What are my main character’s conflicts? What are the conflicts of each act? I then break…

Thanks a lot, appreciate the insights. I always find the productivity part part the most challenging of it all. That's why I am sold on the structure approach and not waiting for the kiss of the muse.

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#75

Post by amayne »

1337biz wrote: post #74
amayne wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First I write a couple sentence mission statement about what the book is about, the character’s journey, the resolution, etc. This is my way of keeping track if the book is on course or not. Does every chapter serve that mission? I then start with notecards and begin with the big questions: What’s the major conflict of the book? What are my main character’s conflicts? What are the conflicts of each act? I then break…

Thanks a lot, appreciate the insights. I always find the productivity part part the most challenging of it all. That's why I am sold on the structure approach and not waiting for the kiss of the muse.

I've done a few Periscope streams on my Twitter feed about this. You can check them out at @AndrewMayne.

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#76

Post by galaxyLogic »

mpweiher wrote: post #21
neilv wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This rule applies even more to API documentation. As soon as you mention how , that becomes part of the what interface you have to support. With internal method names, for tricky code, it's a bit more fuzzy, and sometimes I've found that putting how information into the name seems to be a great idea, for readability&correctness of code that calls it. This is more for functions/methods for which the how is relevant (o…

What vs. how was what made this click for me. Apparently, there was a method to invert the screen >>>flashScreen self invertScreen. self delay:sometime. self invertScreen. There was also the requirement to have a "visual beep" to accompany an acoustic beep. The way the visual beep was to be implemented was to invert the screen. Now you could have just put "... invertScreen." where you were supposed to do the visual b…

Yes, it packages a set of code-lines together which have the shared property that they all serve the same purpose. Even if it is called from only one location it makes sense EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT REDUCE the code-size. It does the opposite if you call it only once. But it makes it easier to understand the code because it hides details under a separate method. It makes it easier to read the calling code because it makes the calling code shorter.

I'm not quite sure however if this was the reasoning behind Intention Revealing Selector which I thought was more about how to name methods, not about whether and when to package multiple method-calls into a single new method.

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#77

Post by galaxyLogic »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #44

I've tried publishing a novel in India (English) and it is much more painful than the 80k limit. A top editor told me, more like lamented, that they focus on historical fiction or romance because "that's what sells" I wrote a decent thriller which my friends read in one day because they loved it. Granted, they are my friends so they could by lying, but the publishers just read the synopsis and saw that it isn't histo…

You could write a book which is about 4 fictional books that never got published :-)

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#78

Post by galaxyLogic »

DJHenk wrote: post #68
bloak wrote: post #63

I think there's an interesting phenomenon here how a lot of people get obsessed by producing a book. I have seen so many blogs by aspiring writers, and overheard their conversations on trains, too. What drives people to do this? I think most of them don't hold much hope of becoming rich or famous: they understand that most writers need a day job. Perhaps for some reason they consider themselves inadequate until they…

A book is something that you can point to and say "I made that". Regardless of the content, a book is not fleeting or ephemeral. These days people will even look up to you if you are capable of reading one. So it carries weight, both in the physical and mental sense of the word. If you're not self published, a book is also a sign of approval. Someone who knows about these things thought it was good enough to print. R…

That is true. Books are read after centuries, magazine articles not

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#79

Post by jwhitlark »

ghaff wrote: post #26
derefr wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably, the people who actually know how to "operationalize" writing, aren't writing self-help books, but rather are managing stables of prolific (if maybe schlocky!) writers. I would love to hear writing advice from the managing editor of a publisher of pulp serial-fiction books, of the kind where the writers churn out multiple new books per year. Those books might not be the greatest thing ever written, but cer…

For that matter, there are series of branded tech books of various sorts that are used by companies for marketing campaigns. They're written by freelancers and are often more successful at their objectives than you would like to know.

I've always been curious how that scene works. It feels like a comfortable place for someone with broad curiosity and an ability to write. Do you have any insights?

Re: Writing a book, still the same pain 15 years later

#80

Post by baccheion »

Maybe you should look into nootropics, nutrition, and meditation.

In my case, I'd have to let everything sit on my mind (refine, enrich, blend, blur, cohese..) for a while. After, I'd write it all in one go.

Outlines are sometimes great, as they allow pacing and regularity. On the other hand, they tend to destroy substance in a work.

Unless writing for leisure, ensuring there's a sufficiently-sized accessible interested market for your topic.

The more effort put into a book/novel, the less likely it is to do well. Many books catch on due to a good title (picking the right/hot topic). Everything else mainly involves revolving around and repeating the desire leading to the hot nature of the topic. The editor will handle the rest (grammar, spelling, etc). Most who buy books are women or feeler males (ie, all emotion).

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