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Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

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Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#21
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to explain the value of higher math, but it's worth it. Perhaps a better answer to "What are Lie algebras?" is to respond in terms that mean something to your audience. Avoid words like "vector" and "combinatorics". Instead use metaphors. Like Rubix cubes. Tell them Lie algebra is a way to solve Rubix cubes faster. And also other similar puzzles that are way harder than Rubix cubes. It's true enough for ca…

I realize that using words like "vector" and "combinatorics" are poor choices. This is part of the problem. It is difficult to come up with a good metaphor that is simultaneously interesting and meaningful. I think the Rubik's cube is a great example. Thanks, I'll be using that in the future.

Telling them what it can do or what it is used for is almost always the best way to talk about something you do with the totally uninitiated.

Make sure it's something they've heard of before, e.g. the Rubik's cube example.

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#22
post #14

The article's phrase "liberal education" is unlikely to be properly understood in a lot of the USA. The political meaning has so eclipsed the ordinary meaning that the latter seems all but unknown.

I don't know about that. I come from what's described as a "red state"(1) and the term "liberal education" is pretty well understood.

1) The funny part about the "red state" thing is that for years the 2 Senators and 1 House Rep from ND have been Democrat. This changed this year.

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#23

I'm pursuing a career as a math professor (currently an undergrad). I'm not shy about my passion for math, and this has lead to countless conversations like the ones below: "What do you want to do with your math degree?" "I want to go to graduate school and eventually become a math professor." "Oh, so you want to teach!" "No, I want to do research." (Here they give some expression of confusion. I've had this particul…

Agreed. I'm currently in your same position, only a few years ahead (in my second year of grad school, currently). When I try to explain math research to people, I too am left with strange looks. I think most people honestly think that mathematicians sit around and multiply larger and larger numbers together. Part of the problem of explaining the true nature of mathematical research is one of language. For example, I…

I too am super pumped about Lie algebras, and have come up against the issue of how to explain the topic to my less mathematically inclined friends.

You have to start with groups. Group structure is something that's both beautiful and something that can be truly appreciated in a 'cocktail party' setting. And you can't convey anything of substance and true about Lie algebras to someone who doesn't know what a group is.

Then, once your listener is happy and feeling smarter about his new group theory knowledge, you can try to motivate the idea of a Lie algebra however best fits with your research. This way, you are able to tell your listener something comprehensible, and also hint at what else is out there.

At least, I've found that this explanation keeps people pretty happy.

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#24
post #19

When I'm asked about math there are a couple of things. Firstly, I ask them about Pythagoras. Most people know of it, and I phrase it in terms of cardboard cutout squares. Take three squares cut from a heavy material, and make them so that A and B together weigh the same as C. Arrange them so their sides lie on a triangle. Not only is it always possible, but the triangle you get always has a right-angle. Why? How do…

Oh, Collatz problem. I usually use Goldbach or twin prime conjectures to explain the difficulty of seemingly simple problems, but come to think of it, Collatz is even better, because it does not involve any complicated concept at all -- Goldbach and twin prime conjectures are about primes, and sometimes people do not even know what primes are.

How about the problem of, given a polynomial equation in at least two variables and integer coefficients, figuring out whether it has any integer solutions. This has directed a lot of modern mathematics and, on the face of it, doesn't seem like it should be so hard. Plus you can build off of this. They may remember that for two variable quadratics the real solutions form an oval or hyperbola or quadratic or two lines. In general you'll get some higher dimensional surface, and the "shape" of it (and how many "holes" it has) is closely tied with how many integer solutions there can be.

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, Collatz problem. I usually use Goldbach or twin prime conjectures to explain the difficulty of seemingly simple problems, but come to think of it, Collatz is even better, because it does not involve any complicated concept at all -- Goldbach and twin prime conjectures are about primes, and sometimes people do not even know what primes are.

How about the problem of, given a polynomial equation in at least two variables and integer coefficients, figuring out whether it has any integer solutions. This has directed a lot of modern mathematics and, on the face of it, doesn't seem like it should be so hard. Plus you can build off of this. They may remember that for two variable quadratics the real solutions form an oval or hyperbola or quadratic or two lines…

"How about the problem of, given a polynomial equation blah blah blah blah blah ..."

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, Collatz problem. I usually use Goldbach or twin prime conjectures to explain the difficulty of seemingly simple problems, but come to think of it, Collatz is even better, because it does not involve any complicated concept at all -- Goldbach and twin prime conjectures are about primes, and sometimes people do not even know what primes are.

How about the problem of, given a polynomial equation in at least two variables and integer coefficients, figuring out whether it has any integer solutions. This has directed a lot of modern mathematics and, on the face of it, doesn't seem like it should be so hard. Plus you can build off of this. They may remember that for two variable quadratics the real solutions form an oval or hyperbola or quadratic or two lines…

If you try that you get:

* What's a polynomial?

* What are variables?

* What's an integer?

* ... a completely blank stare.

You're absolutely right about the usefulness, but most people really won't get past the word "polynomial".

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#27
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to explain the value of higher math, but it's worth it. Perhaps a better answer to "What are Lie algebras?" is to respond in terms that mean something to your audience. Avoid words like "vector" and "combinatorics". Instead use metaphors. Like Rubix cubes. Tell them Lie algebra is a way to solve Rubix cubes faster. And also other similar puzzles that are way harder than Rubix cubes. It's true enough for ca…

I realize that using words like "vector" and "combinatorics" are poor choices. This is part of the problem. It is difficult to come up with a good metaphor that is simultaneously interesting and meaningful. I think the Rubik's cube is a great example. Thanks, I'll be using that in the future.

The problem with toy-based analogies is that people then think the math is a toy. "Who cares if you can solve a Rubik's cube faster?"

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#28
Part I

Yet again we are flagellated, excoriated, eviscerated, etc. about 'mathematics'.

Still, some crucial points are missing. Been there; done that; learned the lessons; and below are some crucial ones.

Yes, candidate understatement of the millennium is that people don't understand math! Yup, they don't! That is, except mathematicians, and they are a tiny fraction of the population.

I review some of the main directions and then give my view of the crucial points and direction.

Best Undergraduate Major

Yes, in many ways math is a terrific subject. I recommend it as in many ways (not all) as the best undergraduate major.

Why? First, because in all the rest of the academic subjects of physical science, economics, social science, engineering, computer science, and now even parts of biology and medical science, 'mathematization' of the field is widely regarded as the best academic 'research progress'. E.g., mathematical (theoretical) physics is the most prestigious part of physics, and the situation is similar in the other fields. Second, because in all those other fields, nearly all the people feel that they very much need to know more mathematics. And, any mathematician who reads their work will readily agree!

In particular, the level of math in academic computer science research made some progress with Knuth and since then has, in a word, sucked.

Outside of academics, the level of knowledge of math is so poor that at the right time and place knowing some relevant math, that might not be very advanced, can be one heck of an advantage.

For such an advantage, there is a general principal, a double edged sword: For some knowledge to be a big advantage, it is nearly necessary that very few other people understand it. So, if you really do have an idea that can put $1B in the bank, before the money is coming in at a rate that makes the $1B look likely, explaining the knowledge to anyone else will give only contempt, laughter, anger, or silence. Generally people will give respect for something they admire, say, making $1B, but some knowledge they don't understand (without something like money clearly attached) will mostly just make them angry. In particular, for such math knowledge, people in business won't understand the math, and people in math won't understand the business. It can be lonely at the top, or as a pioneer, etc. Generally, having a big advantage later can be valuable but at first can be lonely.

Getting Paid

Since for nearly everyone, most of their career has to be directed to getting paid, we need to say how math can contribute.

My guess is that for at least the rest of this century, math will be more important for computing than Moore's law is, will be, or, really, so far has been. So generally I'm optimistic. On this point, I expect that so far nearly no one will agree with me. Still, such importance can be a long way from getting paid.

Money for Academic Math

For the more technical academic fields, there has been one main source of money -- the US Federal Government. Why? Before 1940, f'get about it! After 1945, D. Eisenhower, J. Conant, V. Bush and others were so impressed by the role of math in WWII that Eisenhower supposedly said "Never again will US science be permitted to operate independent of the US military." Conant, et al., deliberately set up several sources of funding -- NSF, ONR, etc. -- so that there would be no one place to cut off the flow of money. The Cold War and the Space Race added more funding. By 1960, there was so much money for research, including math, that a joke went "While you are up, get me a grant.". Now commonly the top US research universities get about 60% of their budget from NSF, NIH, DoE, etc.

Scenario: You are a university dean of the School of Science with the math department, and they want to hire some profs. As the dean you look mostly at (1) prestige for the university, (2) demand for courses, and (3) opportunity for research grants. There (1) is okay for, maybe, 50 mathematicians today. For (2), mostly f'get about it: The other departments and the math profs agree that the math department shouldn't teach 'service' courses. So, the other departments want to teach the math themselves or just f'get about it. Besides now there is a history of math department service courses taught by people who didn't speak English, and bitterness remains. For (3), some years ago there was an Exxon executive David who lead the writing of a report that basically claimed that the research and teaching in the math departments was next to useless 'abstract nonsense'. One result was that the NSF, etc. felt more justified in cutting back grants for math. Math had too little support in Congress, and there were plenty of other fields that wanted the grants instead. Net, in the research universities, the math departments went on meager rations. They still are.

So in academic math, where is the 'action'? Well, there is plenty of screaming that K-12 needs math teachers. Okay, so there are colleges with math departments that specialize in such 'math teacher training'. Those colleges need some profs who got math Ph.D. degrees from, say, a state university. There the math profs got their Ph.D. degrees from research universities. And there the math profs do research on generalized abstract nonsense that may not go useless forever. So there is a pyramid with several levels, the lowest of which is K-12 math teaching and the top of which are the math departments at the usual suspects Stanford, Berkeley, Princeton, Harvard, etc. Of course what a Princeton math prof does is essentially irrelevant to anything in K-12 math. Being irrelevant is economically risky!

This pyramid is at risk: E.g., college departments of education might just do their own teaching of math to students headed for K-12 math.

So, here's the good news about academic math: The stuff on the library shelves isn't going anywhere!

Re: Mathematics: The Most Misunderstood Subject

#29

Part I Yet again we are flagellated, excoriated, eviscerated, etc. about 'mathematics'. Still, some crucial points are missing. Been there; done that; learned the lessons; and below are some crucial ones. Yes, candidate understatement of the millennium is that people don't understand math! Yup, they don't! That is, except mathematicians, and they are a tiny fraction of the population. I review some of the main direct…

Part II

Money for Academic Math Applications

Still in academics, if want to make a big splash outside math departments, then math can be one of your best tools and advantages. One approach: Learn some measure theory and functional analysis, standard early math grad school topics. Then, less standard, learn probability, stochastic processes, and statistics based on measure theory. Learn some differential equations -- big part of math. Then, also less standard, learn some optimization and control theory, both deterministic and stochastic. Yes, I'm not nearly the first to suggest such math topics; in recent years they have been proposed as 'the mathematical sciences' (that didn't catch on nearly as well as hoped). Then use this knowledge to build best possible, 'optimal', 'models' that attack the ubiquitous 'uncertainty' in other fields, write papers, teach seminars and then courses, write text books, do consulting, get grants and grad students, etc. Be a prof, maybe, in finance or production in a B-school or in EE in an engineering school.

Math Jobs Outside Academics

Likely the biggest opportunity for 'jobs' in math outside of academics is the US Federal Government, especially with DoD funding, related to national security.

Otherwise, for a 'job' with any very significant role for math, f'get about it. Why? To have such a job, except in very small companies or the DoD path just above, someone needs to understand the work of the job, write a job description, get the job funded in their budget, and put some of their career on the line that the money will be seen by the more senior managers as money well spent. That is, in essentially all larger organizations, the ideas of the factory floor 100 years ago are still in place: The supervisor knows more than the subordinate, and the subordinate is there mostly just to apply more blood and sweat to the work of the supervisor. So, since nearly no supervisors know much math, f'get about such jobs.

Or, suppose there is a mathematician in a large organization. At the top there is the CEO who forgot any calculus they might have learned. Between the two is middle management. So, by a standard math argument, somewhere in that management chain must be a mathematician reporting to a middle manager non-mathematician, and that won't work. So, yes, maybe a mathematician can be 'on staff' to the CEO. Don't hold your breath.

But how do other technical fields such as law and medicine work? From licensing, malpractice threats, professional codes of conduct, professional practice peer review, they have a LOT of professional status -- math doesn't. Also they are applied fields with their graduate education aimed almost entirely at practice -- that is, is 'professional' training -- instead of research, etc.; math isn't like that. In particular, law has a standard that a lawyer can report only to another lawyer.

There's a LOT of advanced math in high end academic EE, but it remains that an electrician's license can be a much better foundation for a career.

The Main Opportunity

Outside of academics and government, a relatively stable career nearly always needs a relatively stable collection of happy, paying customers.

To skip to the bottom line, math can be an advantage if the mathematician owns the business that is, except for the math, much like other businesses from Main Street to Silicon Valley to Wall Street.

So, the mathematician uses the math to construct the crucial, core, powerful, defensible (difficult to duplicate or equal) 'secret sauce' and implements it in software that delivers valuable results. It is the results, essentially only the results, that the happy customers pay for.

Back to my claim of more important than Moore's Law: We already know what the world wants in the famous one word answer, "More!". The main way for more is automation. For that, so far we've been just coding what we already knew how to do by hand or just intuitive or heuristic ideas. The main way to get more powerful software (that is, able to generate more valuable results) is to have it implement more powerful manipulations, and the main way to that is math, yes, complete with theorems and proofs (so that we can have confidence in the work), possibly original based on advanced material. My view is that for the rest of this century, (1) this math direction is (thanks heavily to DoD projects of the past 70 years) well proven and rock solid, (2) progress better than via math is not promising, and (3) progress without the math is not promising. Of course, just now, one advantage is that nearly no one understands the math or accepts this claim!

For the academic math departments, their 'teaching' pyramid is at risk. To get their field going again, they need to 'connect with reality' and deliver value that plenty of other people are willing to pay for, hopefully quite directly, otherwise at least indirectly. "The analytic-algebraic topology of the locally Euclidean metrization of infinitely differentiable Riemannian manifolds" or some pursuit of abstract beauty no one else can appreciate are NOT good directions.

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