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Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

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Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#31

This was a valuable article to read. Facebook is enormously valuable. They made something like $15B in net income in the last four quarters. Content moderators are a necessary condition for that profit. If kiddie porn, gore and animal cruelty flooded the network, it would cease to be a destination visited by people that advertisers will pay to reach. And yet, there are two sets of entry-level knowledge workers at Fac…

It's knowledge workers vs unskilled labour.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#32
post #19

I live in East Wall, Dublin -- beside the Facebook moderator (The Beckett) building. I wonder if this is true for them as well or if it's just N. America -- we've better employment protections and minimum wage in Ireland compared to the US.

AFAIK Content reviewers in the Dublin office work for Facebook as perm employees (are not contractors), and mostly deal with escalated cases from offsite contractors.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#33

Couldn't violence (both towards animals and humans) be detected in an automated fashion? Especially screams in the audio should be fairly easy to find. Then block those videos by default, with a manual appeals process that sends it to a moderator, combined with a big warning that submitting videos against the TOS will get you suspended. Of course this could lead to people submitting videos without audio, but this wil…

>Couldn't violence (both towards animals and humans) be detected in an automated fashion?

Even if it could (and parallel posters argue it cannot), there is a meta-problem: "Who is allowed to post violent content?". Violence is contextual, and also legality of posting it is contextual. Same goes for other objectionable materials (nudity, extreme ideologies etc.).

Point in case, if all users were subject to the same criteria, the big names in media would quickly get banned. And/or would enter war path with Facebook, accusing it of heavy-handed censorship against the freedom of the press.

Same for reportage of popular events with any degree of nudity. A news piece about a Femen protest, a Pride event, a World Naked Bike Ride, maybe even the No Pants Subway Ride would cause a ban.

Likewise, anybody documenting & discussing historical events, and anybody documenting & discussing present-day uprising, revolutions, civil wars, persecutions, etc., would quickly get banned, essentially sweeping a lot of abuse under the rug. Probably even discussion & documentation of domestic violence would have this problem.

As a lighter aside, cartoonish violence (video games & movies) could also easily fall prey to automated violence take-downs.

All in all, Facebook really really wants to give certain users (mostly press & historians) broad, sweeping exceptions to the general rules.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#34

Maybe Facebook should make all of their own employees do 15 minutes of moderation per day - just to share the pain out a bit....

All the devs would leave

...but there must be a downside, no?

(stolen from Scott Adams.)

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#35
I've worked some shit jobs over the years an I can't say I wouldn't be very tempted to try working there for $15/hr if I was still in the market for that kind of job and everything else around is paying closer to $9. I know HN likes to grandstand about how important workplace conditions are but when you're doing unskilled jobs you don't have that luxury. If you get the opportunity to do a worse job for 66% more money you take it and try to do it well enough to keep cashing that check.

I know that a lot of people here are probably bothered by the fact that the workplace sounds like impersonal zoo but most of these minimum wage workplaces are along that spectrum. Dirty bathrooms, inflexible policies for everything, etc. are normal. It's just how workplaces like this are. If you want a shitty job that's more personal and flexible then you need to work for a small employer but that can have its downsides too.

Sure the content itself sucks particularly but that's why they pay bigger bucks than everyone else if you can cope then good for you. If you can't you leave. It's just like a call center but more extreme.

Don't mistake me as defending Facebook or Cognizant here, I'm not. I'm just saying this that all things considered this doesn't seem like a particularly bad deal as far a shitty unskilled jobs go. They all have their pros and cons and you gotta find something that works for your personal preferences. I'd take digging ditches over anything with rigid corporate policy about every facet of my job but that's just my preference.

Personally something I think would help a lot would be if they'd over-staff the place and schedule people for few enough hours that they can easily hold another job and make efforts to accommodate people's other commitments. Just doing content moderation every day is probably where a lot of the mental and physical health issues comes from. In my experience the kinds of jobs that really grind you down grind you down a lot less when they're your side gig to some other slightly less shit job.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#36
post #24

Couldn't violence (both towards animals and humans) be detected in an automated fashion? Especially screams in the audio should be fairly easy to find. Then block those videos by default, with a manual appeals process that sends it to a moderator, combined with a big warning that submitting videos against the TOS will get you suspended. Of course this could lead to people submitting videos without audio, but this wil…

> Especially screams should be farely easy to detect I guess it depends how reliably it could determine between ordinary screaming (especially with children who scream at just about anything that makes them happy or unhappy), and 'terrible things are happening' screaming. Even most humans would probably struggle to tell the difference just based on a short audio clip of a scream, which is what your algo would have to…

I think we've all sat in our house trying to figure out if the next door neighbour's kids are being murdered or not.

Rollercoaster videos would be banned, as well as haunted houses, neither of which are terribly offensive.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#37

For the wage mentioned in the article, I'm surprised they don't have trouble finding people to do the job. >Speagle helps to take care of his parents, who have health problems, and was afraid to quit Cognizant. “It was tough to find a job down here in this market,” he said. Tougher than watching graphic PTSD-inducing videos every day? It sounds like the job absolutely sucks but these contractors need to have a little…

It's not easy to self diagnose for this stuff. "You just read Facebook posts and look at pictures? No customer yelling at you? Sounds easy."

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#38
I have a hotkey in i3wm:

bindsym $mod+backslash exec "xcalib -i -a"

which inverts all colors (btw, I have to `killall redshift` because of a bug). When colors are inverted, I feel almost undisturbed at any gruesome content (for me it's like seeing screenshots of Quake 2 with buggy GPU drivers), yet I can still easily recognise whether the content is disturbing. And when it's a video, I play it at ≥2x speed so that it wouldn't feel realistic for my brain.

I wonder whether those moderators use these two lifehacks.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#39
post #33

Couldn't violence (both towards animals and humans) be detected in an automated fashion? Especially screams in the audio should be fairly easy to find. Then block those videos by default, with a manual appeals process that sends it to a moderator, combined with a big warning that submitting videos against the TOS will get you suspended. Of course this could lead to people submitting videos without audio, but this wil…

>Couldn't violence (both towards animals and humans) be detected in an automated fashion? Even if it could (and parallel posters argue it cannot), there is a meta-problem: "Who is allowed to post violent content?". Violence is contextual, and also legality of posting it is contextual. Same goes for other objectionable materials (nudity, extreme ideologies etc.). Point in case, if all users were subject to the same cr…

Train with signals about the sender?

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Couldn't violence (both towards animals and humans) be detected in an automated fashion? Even if it could (and parallel posters argue it cannot), there is a meta-problem: "Who is allowed to post violent content?". Violence is contextual, and also legality of posting it is contextual. Same goes for other objectionable materials (nudity, extreme ideologies etc.). Point in case, if all users were subject to the same cr…

Train with signals about the sender?

Also my first thought, but thinking it through, this can easily lead to (potentially valid) criticism of intrusive profiling and censorship.
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