Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#821

Post by wavefunction » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 1:25 AM UTC

miohtama wrote: post #663

jpmattia wrote: post #546

Again: A ledger that is not decentralized is a bank database, not a cryptocurrency. As near as I can tell, Zuckbucks are nothing more than the JPMorganCryptocurrency but with a bigger consortium. The only difference seems to be who is given write privileges to the database.

Libra is a attempt to cut out issuer banks, as in credit cars issuance, out of the equation. That is why Visa/PayPal/Mastercard are on the board. It is less fees for the consumers, definitely better UX, and in a sense relief from the legacy banking woes.

And more importantly for them Visa/Pay Pal/Mastercard aren't outflanked by their own competitors. There's little noble to this endeavor by these characters.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#822

Post by gruez » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 1:33 AM UTC

andrewla wrote: post #790

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even the bank cannot reduce your balance in secret without your authorization Uh, neither can my Traditional Legacy Bank™ if I ask for regular statements? I suppose you could argue they could lie to me about the actual amount. Well, then I will just sue them for the money.

I just mean that your funds at the bank can be seized without your assent for numerous reasons - civil judgements, asset forfeiture, etc., and given to someone else.

So instead of seizing your funds, they'll freeze your coins, then mint new ones to pay your creditor.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#823

Post by behringer » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 1:56 AM UTC

lwansbrough wrote: post #801

behringer wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No doubt if FB (i refuse to call them libra) coins become popular, when world governments limit crypto currency at FB's request, FB coins will no doubt be the only exception.

Zucc Buccs it is, then.

Zuckerberg: Every Zucc Buck will be worth 5 British pounds!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shxiy7l5b_4

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#824

Post by liminal18 » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:02 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #794

taurath wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number. There are many people a…

Do we have any indication from Facebook that they intend to use Libra to massively undercut Visa / Mastercard for merchant services? I mean in the developed economies.

yes, their whitepaper heavily suggests that access to finance products for the poor is a big motivation behind Libra. However, it does feel a bit like white washing as the majority of the profits from Libra will obviously be the convenience of paying via facebook owned messengers etc.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#825

Post by liminal18 » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:08 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #639

generalk wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. The world could use an online independent currency I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? > 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having > that work on a large scale is a good thing Having a blo…

I'm fairly anti-crypto, but there are a couple items in favor of #1: - A currency outside of traditional governments would theoretically be free of currency manipulation by those governments (ex. China and the Yuan) - An international currency can sidestep the artificial middleman fees and friction caused by traditional monetary exchanges. Ex. my friend who is currently studying in Japan wanted to get some money from…

being free of Government manipulation while desirable also has drawbacks as a corporate owned currency means it would be subject to corporate manipulation. Think Kong Bucks. Basically, corporate currencies mean not only do you shop at the company store, but you use their money too. I think the original premise of a government less people's coin via bitcoin is a better idea as it means the population takes responsibility for their currency.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#826

Post by um_ya » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:26 AM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #644

ChainOfFools wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the "decentralization is a spectrum" crowd has already furnished the fintech narrative with the arguments necessary to justify calling this "decentralized." The "decentralization" quality should not be used to describe any system that doesn't exhibit a permanent, irreversible systemic trend towards greater decentralization of all the levers, concentrations and bottlenecks of power within itself over tim…

Bitcoin doesn’t fulfil these criteria either - the devs and miners have not become more decentralised over time, if anything more centralised. Of course it is far more decentralised than this ersatz cryptocurrency from Facebook in both spirit and actions. However the number of people who want a decentralised currency (with the many, many compromises it requires) is globally very close to 0%, so despite wailing on HN…

> I sincerely hope this dystopian effort to impose a global corporate currency fails.

By extension, I hope the effort to impose a global governmental currency fails.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#827

Post by W-Stool » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:26 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #652

generalk wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. The world could use an online independent currency I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? > 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having > that work on a large scale is a good thing Having a blo…

> I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number. There are many people a…

If you're running some kind of IT infrastructure big enough for the whole world to use, you're going to want a cut of each transaction whether you are VISA/MC or Facebook's blockchain. Some sort of transaction fee is inevitable, even (or especially) on a private blockchain.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#828

Post by bassman9000 » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

mwest217 wrote: post #297

I feel like the biggest losers here are open consensus-based cryptocurrencies like [Stellar]( https://stellar.org ) and [Ripple]( https://ripple.com ). Libra seems to have the same niche: a consensus-based blockchain protocol rather than proof of work. I fear that having the clout of a bunch of tech companies behind it will get consumer buy-in much faster than Stellar will (with IBM World Wire). A stablecoin backed b…

Ripple is backed by euro banks. Libra has nothing on it.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#829

Post by danny8000 » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:37 AM UTC

I remember Disney Dollars as a kid that were pegged to US 1:1 and could be used at any Disney-owned property. They were basically gift cards with no expiration date. They ended up not being cost efficient, so Disney discontinued them in 2016.

So, if the Libra ends up costing more to run than in earns (hardware, software, labor, and the cost of pegging it to a basket of currencies), then they won’t continue funding it. Since it’s not going to be a speculative currency like bitcoin, how will they pay or it? Will they take a transaction fee?

I also keep on reading that it will help the unbanked in the developing world facilitate payments. I guess it can be risky and hard to carry a lot of cash around for large purchases in parts of the world. But for this to work do you need better identity management? Or if you hold the cell phone, you hold the wallet? If it’s target is micro payments, then there are already many expanding options.

So that leave cross-border transfers, which is a huge thread to the US’s economic dominance. It is much harder to embark Iran if you don’t control the currency they sell their own for.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#830

Post by lightedman » Wed, Jun 19, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #743

lightedman wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's something for you to discover - cryptocoins have single-handedly wiped out and exceeded all progress we gained in Photovoltaic technology. Thanks for helping destroy the planet and undoing what we've been working so hard to achieve, all in the name of some pet project.

Note that Libra doesn't use energy-sucking PoW.

If it works in any way like a permissionless distributed database, you will find it running into energy problems very quickly with every node addition. this is a known issue since the 70s when we first tried this kind of technology.