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Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

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Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#651

Post by JaRail »

Florin_Andrei wrote: post #626
JaRail wrote: post #536

I'm surprised to see Coinbase as a founding member. I wonder if they'll allow direct conversions between Libra and other cryptocurrencies. It's interesting to note that there aren't any device manufacturers as members. No Google, Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc. That's going to make this an uphill battle for them. It implies that those companies have their own ideas. Or, perhaps, they just aren't willing to partner with FB…

I think it makes perfect sense for Coinbase to tap into this flow.

I mean, I'm more surprised they were invited to the party. You know something like this will immediately spur countries to denounce it as facilitating money laundering, terrorism, the collapse of the civilized world, etc. I would have thought they'd stick with PayPal as their main partner to interface with banks. It's a huge opportunity for Coinbase but they bring the political baggage of every other cryptocurrency along with them.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#652

Post by taurath »

generalk wrote: post #592
vivekd wrote: post #557

This is an interesting story and I would like to learn more about libra-coin. Unfortunately I think hackernews has a strong anti-facebook bias that is making the opinions here nearly universally one sided. I think we can say three things fairly uncontroversially in favor of this 1. The world could use an online independent currency 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having that work on a large scale is…

> 1. The world could use an online independent currency I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? > 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having > that work on a large scale is a good thing Having a blo…

> I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency?

Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number.

There are many people all over the world without access to banking - they can't store money, they can't transfer money, and they can't invest money. That may be someone who has poor credit in the US, or someone who's living in rural India or Africa. Without access to banking, you are essentially cut off from globalization.

If you live in a country that has extremely tight currency and economic controls but with a corrupt government, and are experiencing hyperinflation (Zimbabwe, Venezuela, others https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate), access to alternative currencies can literally be the difference between life and death for individuals, where the money you make on your salary will be worthless by the time you get your check.

Plenty of other examples. Whether this is a good solution I don't know, they just announced it.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#653

Post by smsm42 »

WA wrote: post #205

> "On the first point, Marcus said that Facebook is enforcing a strict separation between users’ social data—their Facebook likes, photos, etc—and the financial data that will be available on Libra’s network. There will not, he insisted, be a readily available data trove connecting users’ transactional data to their Facebook profiles, and users’ funds themselves will be cryptographically secured. “We don’t want finan…

> We don’t want financial data and social data to be commingled

"Want" can change with one board meeting. And if they start "wanting" it in 3 years, is there a guarantee it won't happen?

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#654

Post by pwodhouse »

kemonocode wrote: post #646

I hope this gets anywhere, not because I'm particularly enamored with Facebook (In fact, I hate them and their skeevy practices) but because I want PayPal to feel the squeeze. I just happen to hate PayPal a little bit more than Facebook and any competition in that department is good in my opinion. I don't see Libra being remotely any competition against Bitcoin, but as an alternative to current centralized payment pr…

PayPal is part of the Facebook Coin consortium.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#655

Post by justinmchase »

vivekd wrote: post #557

This is an interesting story and I would like to learn more about libra-coin. Unfortunately I think hackernews has a strong anti-facebook bias that is making the opinions here nearly universally one sided. I think we can say three things fairly uncontroversially in favor of this 1. The world could use an online independent currency 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having that work on a large scale is…

There are a lot of possible nuanced conversations but I think that the rejection of FB-coin on principle is the simplest argument and doesn't require much nuance to achieve.

That principle simply being the principle of decentralization which is core to the concept and purpose of block chains. No single or cluster of large companies or governments can create and control a block chain without violating that principle and thus a rejection on principle is justifiable.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#656

Post by camjohnson26 »

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #575
jpmattia wrote: post #546

Again: A ledger that is not decentralized is a bank database, not a cryptocurrency. As near as I can tell, Zuckbucks are nothing more than the JPMorganCryptocurrency but with a bigger consortium. The only difference seems to be who is given write privileges to the database.

Can you explain why the ledger being run by ~27 different entities is NOT decentralized? How many governing entities (or validators; or people running blockchain servers) do you need before it qualifies as decentralized? I'm wondering about your definitions, not defending Facebook here.

Well 3 of the entities are Andreessen-Horowitz, Uber, and Lyft. Not exactly independent concerns.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#657

Post by smsm42 »

InTheArena wrote: post #197

Certain activist groups put constant pressure on Facebook to “deplatform” and remove pages for both legitimate in it legitimate reasons. Now we’re talking about giving Facebook control over the very means to do financial transactions. How long Before this also becomes weapononized, by Facebook, or by activists? there is a reason why popular currency systems has been the purview of governments. We’re creating an awful…

I predict if it happens, demand to cut off $BAD_PEOPLE from the service will start the next day the service is launched. And if it is technically possible, the demands will be complied with the next day after that, for some values of $BAD_PEOPLE. Nobody wants to be a platform for moving terrorist money, right? Or drug money? Or alt-right money? Or gun manufacturers money? Or pro-life money? Or wrong-presidential-candidate money? Or persons-whose-opinions-I-don't-like money?

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#658

Post by omarchowdhury »

spaceflunky wrote: post #640
percentcer wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You buy it from a trusted member node

So there is no way to mine it? You just buy it at a set price? Does that mean that it is not really designed to be "invested in" the way people invest in bitcoin and others?

Correct. It's backed by a basket of fiat currencies (USD, GBP, JPY, EUR).

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#659

Post by rt2dap »

taurath wrote: post #652
generalk wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. The world could use an online independent currency I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? > 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having > that work on a large scale is a good thing Having a blo…

> I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency? Visa and Mastercard are taking a 3-4% cut of every single consumer payment made in much of the world. That ends up being a very, very big number. There are many people a…

Visa and Mastercard have invested so I wonder how they might weigh in on the project. Also, the Libra-coin should also have a transaction cost associated but I would expect/presume it stands an order of magnitude lower than 3-4%

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#660

Post by ineedasername »

vivekd wrote: post #557

This is an interesting story and I would like to learn more about libra-coin. Unfortunately I think hackernews has a strong anti-facebook bias that is making the opinions here nearly universally one sided. I think we can say three things fairly uncontroversially in favor of this 1. The world could use an online independent currency 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having that work on a large scale is…

1) I'm not saying that's wrong, but I don't think it has the self-evident nature you attribute to it.

2) Agreed, though I'd really like it to be someone other than Facebook that does it.

3) We already have all sorts of other currencies. Frequent flier miles spring to mind, which can often be converted for other use. If they're not popular enough to be universally fungible, then in your terms they're not a "better" currency. It's also not self evident that any coin will do any better.

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