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Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

reuters.com

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Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#111

Post by function_seven »

futureastronaut wrote: post #72
masterjack wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but photosynthesis doesn’t generate energy but the opposite: it takes in energy from the sun in order to reverse the reaction

That's a good point, the solar energy is not created. My point is that CO2 can be removed while creating useful energy (in this case, converting a transient source to a durable one). I thought parent was being overly dramatic, even simplistic, in making CO2 sound like some unusable waste product ("burnt carbon. It's burnt. Burnt stuff ain't fuel; it's burnt.").

> My point is that CO2 can be removed while creating useful energy

You have to pick one. CO2 removal or creating energy. If you remove it, it must remain sequestered. If you create fuel from it, the CO2 will not have been removed.

I'm not against the idea of sourcing fuels from atmospheric CO2. It's a good way to get energy-dense fuel without adding new carbon to the atmosphere (assuming a carbon-free source of energy is used to synthesize the fuel). But that process won't remove CO2; it'll just not add more.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#112

Post by dougmwne »

Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

I advocate letting go of the personal shaming and guilting. That's just not a scalable solution. Here are much better things you can do with that emotional energy and carbon offset purchasing power instead:

-Vote for politicians that will regulate carbon

-Lobby your elected officials to regulate carbon

-Give to NGOs that lobby to regulate carbon

-Reward companies that sell products that reduce your carbon footprint and add value to your life.

-Pivot your career to work with green NGOs, on the staff or campaigns of green-friendly politicians, or companies creating greed products.

Do a few of these things and you can litter all you like.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#113

Post by CapricornNoble »

Canada, Siberia.....both of these areas have been relatively untouched/unexploited due to the permafrost issue and generally inhospitable weather. But they represent a HUGE portion of the global land area....

So why aren't we looking at climate change as opening up vast tracts of the northern hemisphere to settlement and exploitation?

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#114

Post by NeedMoreTea »

jjoonathan wrote: post #90
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The typically socialised decommissioning costs, far in excess of estimates, of nuclear usually seem to more than cancel out any cost competitiveness. I was quite pro-nuclear in the 80s and 90s...

... until we collectively decided to stop leveraging the upsides of nuclear and it turned into just a money pit, rather than a plausible investment. Yeah, I hear you. FWIW I consider it a lost cause these days too. It didn't have to be that way. Sounds like China is making a go for it, though. Maybe in 20 years they can come build some plants to save us from the duck curve.

China is helped there that they can centrally require it. I doubt they have quite the NIMBY issue we typically get for major projects...

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#115

Post by john_moscow »

Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

Except a single factory in China emits more CO2 than all the readers of this HN thread combined. So all you are going to do by minimizing your own carbon footprint is make your own life miserable and free up the resources for someone who doesn't give a damn.

And I am sorry to say that, but I don't think that a global framework enforcing the same environmental restrictions on every country in the world, regardless of its economic state, is realistic. Sorry.

That said, humanity has adapted to live in variety of environments, from African tropics to Canadian permafrost, centuries before the technological revolution. So once the global warming effects start noticeably affecting regular people, there will be a wave on businesses built around mitigating those effects, dealing with the causes and perhaps trying to reverse some of them. But before this becomes a pressing matter for pretty much everyone, I don't think there is much we can do.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#116

Post by jordanbeiber »

radicalbyte wrote: post #98
nextos wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Your individual actions won't have much impact, except the aggregate effect on politics. Politics is so short sighted that unless there's huge pressure from the masses nothing will be done, or just too little too late. Even if the Science backing up Climate Change wasn't solid, which I think it is, what's the alternative? Take a gamble? The Roman Civilization probably collapsed because, among other things, t…

We need to turn this amazing machine of capitalism we've created towards solving the problem. That requires strong political leadership and buy in. American needs to turn back into the country represented by Captain America. They need to be leaders again, instead of acting like they're being run by one of those infant English kings from the Middle Ages..

Hold your horses. Give me the numbers on short term ROI. Aha! Your business plan sucks as you cannot produce viable revenue numbers in a timely maner.

Brr... The problem is that making quick money on scale seems to me like some kind of condition. Some biological hoarding gene that made sense just a hundred years ago.

Evolution have not kept up with our success at building and automating stuff made from stars. It makes me sad.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#117

Post by pas »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #113

Canada, Siberia.....both of these areas have been relatively untouched/unexploited due to the permafrost issue and generally inhospitable weather. But they represent a HUGE portion of the global land area.... So why aren't we looking at climate change as opening up vast tracts of the northern hemisphere to settlement and exploitation?

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#118

Post by bdamm »

chr1 wrote: post #18
pfisch wrote: post #7

Maybe I don't understand the ramifications of this, but it kind of sounds like we missed the offramp where we just stop burning carbon. Shouldn't we just be moving to something drastic like a massive sun shade project ASAP?

Exactly! But instead of one massive sunshade we would be better off using many small ones, which would allow us to control the local weather. Two possible technologies that seem promising to me are large nitrogen filled balloons with solar elements and several kilometer high solar updraft towers. The updraft tower depending on configuration can transport large amount of dust upwards helping to create clouds, or conde…

I would love to see the inflatable updraft towers get a proof of concept. It's such an enticing idea, one of the best I've seen yet.

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#119

Post by beat »

734129837261 wrote: post #51
HugoDaniel wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah we will adapt, but not fast enough.

We will. We always do. There is no reason to assume we won't. The wealthy westerners will not notice because of air conditioning and endless bottled water. The less wealthy ones will suffer the heat a bit more. The poor ones will be taken care of. Third world nations will suffer. Some might die. Maybe many. But humanity will adapt. We might lose a few hundred million in the next few decades until their folks find new…

20 billion is half again higher than the worst predictions for population growth. The world's population is expected to peak around 11B in 2100 or so, with outside high predictions up to 14B.

On what basis do you believe the population will hit 20B, especially with birth rates plummeting to near-replacement levels all around the world? What countries are going to go backwards, and why?

Re: Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years earlier than predicted

#120

Post by Mikeb85 »

Fede_V wrote: post #27

Global warming is the single scariest existential threat our species has ever faced, and we aren't doing nearly enough to tackle it. Our future descendants will heap scorn and curses on our generation, and we deserve every bit of it. Every politician that refuses to do what is necessary or finds it convenient to play stupid language games about 'settled science' is doing incalculable harm. As citizens, I encourage ev…

We're not doing anything to tackle it. Nearly every country is still increasing emissions.

And nothing individuals do will be enough. The top causes of CO2 emissions are industrial power generation, production of concrete, resource extraction, deforestation/burning forests and transportation.

Fact is, the world's population is still increasing, developing countries will still develop, developed countries won't reduce emissions, there's no stopping it.

Even in the US, the DNC struck down the 'Green New Deal'.

Either we're all doomed, or it's not an existential threat.

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