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Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

reuters.com

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Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#341

Post by 2tab »

jupp0r wrote: post #242
2tab wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The curios thing about these anecdotes is that as dysfunctional as somewhere like the Soviet Union was, getting a affordable apartment in only 10 years would be a great deal for many today. In many metro areas property values have increased more the savings from the median income, meaning that the application, or aspiration, of the majority of people is going in reverse.

> getting a affordable apartment in only 10 years would be a great deal for many today I agree, but the same applied for buying a car and other rare goods as well. The whole system was unsustainable. The almost comical dysfunction of it is probably hard to believe if you didn't experience it first hand. 10 years after the wall came down my dad came into the kitchen announcing that today we could have picked up our fi…

That is what is curious. Something comically dysfunctional should be be absurd and outlandish but isn't. Saving 15 years for down payment so you can have some sort of cost control and housing stability in a modest apartment outside of a city is the reality, or even unattainable, for many people without assets today.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#342

Post by stickfigure »

srrr wrote: post #293
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #22

As much as I can sympathise with the predicament, this decision, and the Berlin housing market in general, absolutely baffles me. When I moved here I was warned of 100 people turning up to a flat viewing, and laughed it off as some hyperbole. Only later did I find out that it actually happens , albeit the maximum viewing I went to was around a meagre 50. Having come from the UK, I found the situation in Berlin to be…

The rental freeze does not apply for new housing. (Wohnungsneubau wird vom Gesetz gänzlich ausgenommen.) https://www.berlin.de/rbmskzl/aktuelles/pressemitteilungen/2...

This time.

When the next freeze takes place, your residential construction won't be "new" anymore.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#343

Post by xg15 »

seunosewa wrote: post #337
baxtr wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if building houses is the solution. Wealthy people from around the globe will still buy them to rent them out for a profit or let them just sit there empty to visit for 2 weeks a year. There is even a name for that effect, it is called "induced demand". See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

I feel that the problem is that too many people want to live in Berlin, the solution is for a large fraction of those people to choose to live elsewhere, and the rising rents would have been a good way to achieve that outcome.

Well, in that case, either the rent lock will actually work - or it will increase the difficulty for everyone to get a flat, which essentially would have the same effect of driving people to the outskirts.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#344

Post by nerfhammer »

baxtr wrote: post #328
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #22

As much as I can sympathise with the predicament, this decision, and the Berlin housing market in general, absolutely baffles me. When I moved here I was warned of 100 people turning up to a flat viewing, and laughed it off as some hyperbole. Only later did I find out that it actually happens , albeit the maximum viewing I went to was around a meagre 50. Having come from the UK, I found the situation in Berlin to be…

I am not sure if building houses is the solution. Wealthy people from around the globe will still buy them to rent them out for a profit or let them just sit there empty to visit for 2 weeks a year. There is even a name for that effect, it is called "induced demand". See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

Are you saying that shortages are not reduced by having more of the thing that there is a shortage of?

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#345

Post by bubblewrap »

dopamean wrote: post #38

Does this mean that five years of natural price increases will just happen all at once when five years have passed?

I received a rent increase today, with an apologetic letter that the government is forcing their hands. I suppose I could technically turn it down, but since I have always been on good terms with the landlord, I a not yet sure that I will. I sympathize with his cause.

Other than that, there are also restrictions in place for how much rent may be increased, so I doubt they would be able to make up for the 5 years.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#346

Post by 2tab »

jimmaswell wrote: post #309
zanny wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every western nation has systemically failed to recognize or support the insanely high demand for high density living in the 21st century. That is where the future of economics is, where the future of humanity in general pretty much is, and every democracy is consistently demonstrating the total inability for legislatures to sacrifice the advantage of those lucky enough to inhabit cities as they exist now…

I don't buy any of this. Growing up everyone around me saw the city as somewhere you begrudgingly went out of necessity and only lived there if you had no choice, and I'm inclined to agree. In virtually every aspect I find more countryside-ish living much more pleasant. Consider virtual reality and remote work. I imagine much of the workforce will move to virtual offices in the near to medium-far future when corporat…

Unfortunately everything points to the effect being the opposite. Remote means you don't have to be in Detroit, but can contract a factory in China from New York or run a data center anywhere from the Bay Area.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#347

Post by pgeorgi »

iso-8859-1 wrote: post #321
pgeorgi wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Germany is a federal republic. There's stuff the federal government just has nothing to say about. I mean, in case of Berlin, they could help by moving back to Bonn. Lots of real estate, both office and residential, would free up immediately.

There is fresh federal legislation on this subject: Mietrechtsanpassungsgesetz (MietAnpG). Here is an overview: https://www.etl-rechtsanwaelte.de/aktuelles/mietrechtsanpass...

Contract law (as changed by MietAnpG) is part of the BGB ("civil code"), which is federal law, while the rent cap is built on top of housing law ("Wohnungsrecht"), which is - mostly - state law (e.g. https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article226212113/Mietendeck...).

The states are rather peculiar about the federal government trying to infringe on their right to set laws, so even if most other states agree that the rent cap is a bad idea (not a given), it's uncertain that they would support anything that uses federal powers (in the Bundesrat, which would be hard to avoid) to stop it in Berlin.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#348

Post by tannhaeuser »

deanCommie wrote: post #316
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #22

As much as I can sympathise with the predicament, this decision, and the Berlin housing market in general, absolutely baffles me. When I moved here I was warned of 100 people turning up to a flat viewing, and laughed it off as some hyperbole. Only later did I find out that it actually happens , albeit the maximum viewing I went to was around a meagre 50. Having come from the UK, I found the situation in Berlin to be…

[flagged]

I'm not American, but I share this opinion. Berlin needs housing - but what they're doing is to make it maximally unattractive to invest in housing. That's just illogical, and even critized by non-profit housing orgs (Baugenossenschaften).

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#349

Post by [deleted] »

refurb wrote: post #132
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who looks at regulations like this and sees the Soviet Union is themselves a lunatic. This is not a planned economy, and people do not need to profit from housing to build it, and housing should be a human right.

OK, then look at NYC in the 1970's. Severe rent control resulted in crumbling buildings. Price controls are bad policy.

[deleted]

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#350

Post by zwarag »

jlawson wrote: post #225
pure_ambition wrote: post #217

I think most people with an understanding of economics would agree that more supply is needed. The problem is, zoning laws are made by the cities themselves, which means they are ultimately made by the people who already live there. People who already live there don't want their neighborhoods bulldozed for luxury high rises, which is what happens when zoning is abolished. Then, there is the problem of the suburbs. A…

I wish someone with a deeper understanding would go to Japan and study how they got this so right. Their zoning laws don't separate uses, only nuisance levels, so you often see residential in commercial areas and small shops in residential neighborhoods. It's amazingly effective at reducing how far you need to go to get places, and gives the whole city a much more organic feel. Plus, there is actually housing if ther…

Japan overall or Tokio specifically? Because Tokio would be a bad example as it’s super dense and I think that is exactly what residents try to prevent
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