Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze • Hacker News Board

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#31

Post by hashberry » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

If affordable housing is an issue, then perhaps the government should provide it for its citizens, like building huge high-rises in Berlin.

I used to rent in an expensive city but bought a cheap house in the suburbs (thankfully I work remotely). Everything is cheaper out here, from gas to utilities to food. But I did experience classism from my friends and family: there is status living in a world-class city. And having wealth or a high-paying job in the city is part of this status. But many people want the status without having to pay the $$$.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#32

Post by coryrc » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #20

vtail wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising prices = Demand > Supply. You can either try to curb the demand (by e.g. creating incentives for companies to build offices elsewhere, move government bureaucracy somewhere else, etc.) or improve the supply by facilitating new construction, which in most places on earth is limited by, again, local government restrictions. edits: grammar

What's wrong with legally limiting artificial price hikes to prevent people from abusing Demand > Supply for the sake of their greed? [Edit] To clarify, they seem to be "artificial" price hikes because they don't in any way necessary to cover costs. People realize they can charge more and get more money, so they simply do. That's inherently avaricious and unethical. Sure, maybe prices work themselves out, so that pri…

Paul Krugman tries to help you understand:

https://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/07/opinion/reckonings-a-rent...

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#33

Post by andy_ppp » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #6

usefulcat wrote: post #4

Symptom: rents are too high Cause: insufficient housing supply Solution: disincentivize new construction?

Nope. New buildings are exempt.

So living in new buildings becomes undesirable even further because they are more expensive to live in than the rest of the city!

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#34

Post by ziziyO » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #20

vtail wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising prices = Demand > Supply. You can either try to curb the demand (by e.g. creating incentives for companies to build offices elsewhere, move government bureaucracy somewhere else, etc.) or improve the supply by facilitating new construction, which in most places on earth is limited by, again, local government restrictions. edits: grammar

What's wrong with legally limiting artificial price hikes to prevent people from abusing Demand > Supply for the sake of their greed? [Edit] To clarify, they seem to be "artificial" price hikes because they don't in any way necessary to cover costs. People realize they can charge more and get more money, so they simply do. That's inherently avaricious and unethical. Sure, maybe prices work themselves out, so that pri…

Why is greed so bad here? The problem isn’t greed it’s the demand in the face of the lack of supply.

Make other places more attractive or increase the supply available in this location.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#35

Post by andys627 » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #20

vtail wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising prices = Demand > Supply. You can either try to curb the demand (by e.g. creating incentives for companies to build offices elsewhere, move government bureaucracy somewhere else, etc.) or improve the supply by facilitating new construction, which in most places on earth is limited by, again, local government restrictions. edits: grammar

What's wrong with legally limiting artificial price hikes to prevent people from abusing Demand > Supply for the sake of their greed? [Edit] To clarify, they seem to be "artificial" price hikes because they don't in any way necessary to cover costs. People realize they can charge more and get more money, so they simply do. That's inherently avaricious and unethical. Sure, maybe prices work themselves out, so that pri…

The market works this out "automatically" when supply is greater than demand. If there are too many dwelling units then landlords will compete with eachother for tenants by lowering prices relative to eachother.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#36

Post by supercall » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

vtail wrote: post #10

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuinely curious: what do you think would be a better response?

Raising prices = Demand > Supply. You can either try to curb the demand (by e.g. creating incentives for companies to build offices elsewhere, move government bureaucracy somewhere else, etc.) or improve the supply by facilitating new construction, which in most places on earth is limited by, again, local government restrictions. edits: grammar

You're assuming the high prices are a result of high demand. Speculators and other bad actors are also driving up prices.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#37

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #28

sdegutis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with legally limiting artificial price hikes to prevent people from abusing Demand > Supply for the sake of their greed? [Edit] To clarify, they seem to be "artificial" price hikes because they don't in any way necessary to cover costs. People realize they can charge more and get more money, so they simply do. That's inherently avaricious and unethical. Sure, maybe prices work themselves out, so that pri…

So basically creating an artificial demand stop is the solution to creating the "artificial" price increase?

The simplistic version of demand based economics do not take into account speculators who buy rental properties and do not rent them out to reduce supply and to help increase the price of the properties they are flipping.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#38

Post by dopamean » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

Does this mean that five years of natural price increases will just happen all at once when five years have passed?

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#39

Post by Roritharr » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

llao wrote: post #18

Roritharr wrote: post #9

I'm so ashamed of german politics of late. We're becoming the country where Homeopathy is GAINING popularity, where policy is increasingly symbolic in the good case, outright ideological in the worst case. It's really at the point where I don't want my kids growing up here anymore, problem is, where else?

> Homeopathy is GAINING popularity Citation please.

[1] https://www.spiegel.de/gesundheit/diagnose/homoeopathie-in-d... [2] https://www.bah-bonn.de/bah/?type=565&file=redakteur_filesys...

Sorry for the german sources.

Re: Berlin approves 5-year rent freeze

#40

Post by jstanley » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

supercall wrote: post #36

vtail wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising prices = Demand > Supply. You can either try to curb the demand (by e.g. creating incentives for companies to build offices elsewhere, move government bureaucracy somewhere else, etc.) or improve the supply by facilitating new construction, which in most places on earth is limited by, again, local government restrictions. edits: grammar

You're assuming the high prices are a result of high demand. Speculators and other bad actors are also driving up prices.

Speculators drive up prices by buying. They are "demand" as well.