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Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

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Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#591

Post by jpmattia »

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #575
jpmattia wrote: post #546

Again: A ledger that is not decentralized is a bank database, not a cryptocurrency. As near as I can tell, Zuckbucks are nothing more than the JPMorganCryptocurrency but with a bigger consortium. The only difference seems to be who is given write privileges to the database.

Can you explain why the ledger being run by ~27 different entities is NOT decentralized? How many governing entities (or validators; or people running blockchain servers) do you need before it qualifies as decentralized? I'm wondering about your definitions, not defending Facebook here.

> Can you explain why the ledger being run by ~27 different entities is NOT decentralized?

27 entities? Not decentralized.

$10M fee to run a node? Not decentralized.

Anyone can run a node from their computer? Decentralized.

Blockchain validity is determined by mass consensus? Decentralized.

51% of the hash power is considered an attack rather than a feature of the system? Decentralized.

Edit: Removed item about forking. That's probably more about decentralized governance than decentralized currency.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#592

Post by generalk »

vivekd wrote: post #557

This is an interesting story and I would like to learn more about libra-coin. Unfortunately I think hackernews has a strong anti-facebook bias that is making the opinions here nearly universally one sided. I think we can say three things fairly uncontroversially in favor of this 1. The world could use an online independent currency 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having that work on a large scale is…

> 1. The world could use an online independent currency

I'm not 100% steeped in cryptocurrency theory, and so I don't understand why this is presented as if it's agreed on by everyone. What problems does the world have that would be solved by an online, independent [of any nation, presumably?] currency?

> 2. Adding stability to blockchain currencies and having

> that work on a large scale is a good thing

Having a blockchain-based currency at a huge scale would be interesting for many reasons, but I'm not seeing how it's a fiat "good thing," excepting if you're excited about the technology and waiting for a big player to push it forward.

> 3. Unlike government issued currencies, any monopoly or

> control facebook derives isn't done through force, it's by

> making a coin better than all the other coins. Other

> people are still free to make their competing coins.

I can't buy into the meritocracy/free market purity argument for a currency. Things are already volatile enough, and sometimes economies collapse and people's life savings become worthless. "Other people can make competing coins" sounds an awful lot to me like treating collapse as a feature.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#593

Post by WhiteOwlLion »

mwest217 wrote: post #297

I feel like the biggest losers here are open consensus-based cryptocurrencies like [Stellar]( https://stellar.org ) and [Ripple]( https://ripple.com ). Libra seems to have the same niche: a consensus-based blockchain protocol rather than proof of work. I fear that having the clout of a bunch of tech companies behind it will get consumer buy-in much faster than Stellar will (with IBM World Wire). A stablecoin backed b…

The Libra blockchain is a new blockchain, based on (heavily modified, Barel told me) HotStuff protocol, launched a few months ago by VmWare

https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.05069

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#594

Post by WhiteOwlLion »

tastygreenapple wrote: post #563
drcode wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The important question isn't what you or I will do, but what the 90% of people will do who don't care about privacy/oligopolies.

I'm sure they'll care once someone loses their zuccbuccs for saying "Men are trash".

Seems like having the right to be a jerk is important for financial independence.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#595

Post by mattferderer »

What I haven't heard is how they plan to help US Citizens properly report taxes on any gain or loss when spending Libra.

Either the IRS will need to look the other way or this will become a huge hurdle for mass adoption in the US.

My hope is this helps get the IRS moving faster at making some laws based around using cryptocurrency to buy & sell goods. I do get that this isn't an easy decision to make. At some point someone will have to make it though. You cannot expect people to use a different currency on a daily basis & report any gain or loss on the currency at the time of transaction. It would also be an accounting nightmare to decide which coins you spent at the time of purchase.

My guess is they're waiting for cryptocurrency to become popular enough that it forces their hand & they have to create some type of leniency regarding gains & losses on each transaction.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#596

Post by ur-whale »

segmondy wrote: post #535

Facebook has so much money that one can't wonder what their angle with this. I can only imagine they want to know exactly what you spend money on so they can better target ads.

The information you can derive from seeing a person's full financial transaction record is so much more "pure" than trying to parse the drivel they're posting on their FB feed.

People say a lot of things on the internet, and visit a lot of places. Trying to infer who they truly are and what they truly like from that is actually hard: signal to noise ratio is not great.

But when the time comes to actually spend money, peopl really tells you who they are.

It's the digital equivalent of "actions speak louder than words".

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#597

Post by facefuck »

WhiteOwlLion wrote: post #590
facefuck wrote: post #556

This is bad. Facebook will bake this into their software, even if they claim they won’t do it, they will. It’s no problem because you can always just use fiat right? How are you going to do that when the hoard of idiots out there adopt Libra without considering the long term implications? It could be that if you refuse to use libra, you’ll be left out in the cold. It will be like Facebook all over again. Facebook get…

Is PayPal any different?

Just explain your opinion you annoying idiot.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#598

Post by skosch »

facefuck wrote: post #556

This is bad. Facebook will bake this into their software, even if they claim they won’t do it, they will. It’s no problem because you can always just use fiat right? How are you going to do that when the hoard of idiots out there adopt Libra without considering the long term implications? It could be that if you refuse to use libra, you’ll be left out in the cold. It will be like Facebook all over again. Facebook get…

I agree with the sentiment, if not with the needlessly aggressive wording. Also, the spelling you're looking for is hordes, not hoards.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#599

Post by WhiteOwlLion »

codesushi42 wrote: post #548

Honest question: what will be the incentive for consumers to use Libra over existing solutions like PayPal, Apple Pay, Venmo etc?

Lower transaction fees and your friend likely has an account (or it is very easy to sign up FB user with Libra). As long as Libra is cheaper compared to existing method of transferring funds, it'll be a success. Say it costs me $8 to send money to South Africa. If Libra is free or costs $0.01, then of course I'd use Libra.
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