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Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

decrypt.co

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Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#581

Post by saxonww »

dmje wrote: post #542

Kind of interested in what this means for a non Facebook user. As one of those I already feel sometimes marginalised when content is shared on their walled garden and I need my wife to look at the dates for my kids’ sporting events because they’re only published on Facebook. Now I’m going to be unable to carry out financial transactions, too.

I wonder if this can go that far. It's one thing to offer a Facebook-scale version of arcade tokens, where you buy some and then distribute them within the arcade to use your choice of the arcade-owned services on offer. It's another to effectively declare your own currency and have separate businesses which only accept that (and/or can only be reasonably reached via Facebook). If the latter is not where this is going, and the coins are not good for speculation, then what is the point? And why wouldn't the various world governments have a huge problem with it?

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#582

Post by pgeorgi »

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #575
jpmattia wrote: post #546

Again: A ledger that is not decentralized is a bank database, not a cryptocurrency. As near as I can tell, Zuckbucks are nothing more than the JPMorganCryptocurrency but with a bigger consortium. The only difference seems to be who is given write privileges to the database.

Can you explain why the ledger being run by ~27 different entities is NOT decentralized? How many governing entities (or validators; or people running blockchain servers) do you need before it qualifies as decentralized? I'm wondering about your definitions, not defending Facebook here.

In other contexts "split up between a group of folks" (that may be open to newcomers or not) is sometimes called "federated", while "everybody has (theoretically) a voice in the outcome" would be "decentralized".

In bitcoin, everybody has a chance to voice their opinion on what the ledger should look like (nevermind how miniscule it is these days given warehouses full of ASIC miners). Libra has 27 designated peers, and somebody in that group gets to decide about number 28 (and, potentially, about the other 26).

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#584

Post by facefuck »

baby wrote: post #121
imw wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of interesting physics in building thermonuclear weapons. Doesn't mean you should do it. Your talents could be used to help the world. Instead, they are being used to enclose common spaces and pull apart the fabric of society. Get a better job?

I appreciate your point of view, FWIW I believe that I'm doing net positive work for the world. If you don't believe such projects should exist, you can at least agree that such project will inevitably happen and that it is a good thing that they have people like me onboard to influence them in the right direction. I will write more about the things I work on and why I think these are good things on my blog www.crypt…

You don’t steer anything, you write code. Apparently you are on the “cryptography team,” so are you discussing the social implications of libra with mark Zuckerberg before you implement this and that? Have you prompted any alteration to facebooks plans ever? You have rubbed elbows with all the executives at visa and Facebook and made sure that they are good fellows? Or are you just very happy with that nice fat paycheck and also the (declining) social status that you are afforded by name dropping Facebook?

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#585

Post by WhiteOwlLion »

dmje wrote: post #542

Kind of interested in what this means for a non Facebook user. As one of those I already feel sometimes marginalised when content is shared on their walled garden and I need my wife to look at the dates for my kids’ sporting events because they’re only published on Facebook. Now I’m going to be unable to carry out financial transactions, too.

Kind of interested in what this means for a non Apple user. As one of those I already feel sometimes marginalised when content is shared on their walled garden and I need my wife to look at the dates for my kids’ sporting events because they’re only published on Apple. Now I’m going to be unable to carry out financial transactions, too.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#586

Post by xgulfie »

dmje wrote: post #542

Kind of interested in what this means for a non Facebook user. As one of those I already feel sometimes marginalised when content is shared on their walled garden and I need my wife to look at the dates for my kids’ sporting events because they’re only published on Facebook. Now I’m going to be unable to carry out financial transactions, too.

Sounds like that's exactly how Facebook wants you to feel.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#587

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #575
jpmattia wrote: post #546

Again: A ledger that is not decentralized is a bank database, not a cryptocurrency. As near as I can tell, Zuckbucks are nothing more than the JPMorganCryptocurrency but with a bigger consortium. The only difference seems to be who is given write privileges to the database.

Can you explain why the ledger being run by ~27 different entities is NOT decentralized? How many governing entities (or validators; or people running blockchain servers) do you need before it qualifies as decentralized? I'm wondering about your definitions, not defending Facebook here.

It's a self-imposed hegemony. Bitcoin is controlled by the consensus of all users.

LIBOR was "decentralized". Then we found out that they were all colluding together.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#588

Post by Spearchucker »

gaogao wrote: post #569
ChainOfFools wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the "decentralization is a spectrum" crowd has already furnished the fintech narrative with the arguments necessary to justify calling this "decentralized." The "decentralization" quality should not be used to describe any system that doesn't exhibit a permanent, irreversible systemic trend towards greater decentralization of all the levers, concentrations and bottlenecks of power within itself over tim…

Could you give an example of something with this decentralization quality as you described?

Mastodon. You can set your own server up and benefit from all othe other existing servers. Mastodon provides a decentralised service running on decentralised infrastructure. You can run your server as you see fit, because access to the wider network is federated.

Zuckbucks provide a centralised service running on decentralised infrastructure. Try add your own server to help run Zuck's blockchain...

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#589

Post by ChainOfFools »

gaogao wrote: post #569
ChainOfFools wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the "decentralization is a spectrum" crowd has already furnished the fintech narrative with the arguments necessary to justify calling this "decentralized." The "decentralization" quality should not be used to describe any system that doesn't exhibit a permanent, irreversible systemic trend towards greater decentralization of all the levers, concentrations and bottlenecks of power within itself over tim…

Could you give an example of something with this decentralization quality as you described?

Other than universal entropy, probably nothing. Though math is also decentralized, maybe even moreso, being independent of time. So maybe "nothing that is relevant on a human timescale" is closer.

I strongly suspect that what we have developed a habit of calling decentralization, as if this referred to a final state of a proposed coordination solution, is in fact just a temporary, transitional phase between centralized regimes.

Re: Facebook reveals its cryptocurrency Libra

#590

Post by WhiteOwlLion »

facefuck wrote: post #556

This is bad. Facebook will bake this into their software, even if they claim they won’t do it, they will. It’s no problem because you can always just use fiat right? How are you going to do that when the hoard of idiots out there adopt Libra without considering the long term implications? It could be that if you refuse to use libra, you’ll be left out in the cold. It will be like Facebook all over again. Facebook get…

Is PayPal any different?
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