The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe • Hacker News Board

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#291

Post by test6554 » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:42 AM UTC

Didn't they have a medical loss ratio requirement with obamacare that required 85% of premiums to go toward actual health care?

Could a similar requirement be imposed which specifically required some substantial percentage of the money to go toward teaching payroll, specifically excluding administrator payroll, leisure activities, athletics, and building construction?

Or rather than that, just require schools to publish the percentage of tuition spent on actual teacher/T.A. payroll by department?

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#292

Post by aaronblohowiak » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #143

The money has slowly been taken out of everything. It's a deliberate program. When a new market opens up, like say the internet in the 90s, then the investors and the people in charge will allow some of us to be overpaid for a while. It's really not out of the goodness of their heart's. At that point they are focusing on market capture, and they need bodies to help them do that. Eventually they find a way to make tha…

Efficiency is a “bad deal” in a place with a very low floor of benefits / lifestyle. In economies with very high minimums, efficiency is not too bad! Would you prefer a dynamic market with winners and losers or a stable market that’s kinda ok for a lot of people? This trade off seems pretty easy but over long periods of time the stable market starts to look like a stagnant market that may not allow new entrants to new industries, creating a permanent lagging behind the dynamic/higher-outcome-variance market. So you want some turmoil / “creative destruction”. This is why imho barriers to firing people is bad. I’d rather have the gov’t be the social safety net than the employer.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#293

Post by rebuilder » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

test6554 wrote: post #291

Didn't they have a medical loss ratio requirement with obamacare that required 85% of premiums to go toward actual health care? Could a similar requirement be imposed which specifically required some substantial percentage of the money to go toward teaching payroll, specifically excluding administrator payroll, leisure activities, athletics, and building construction? Or rather than that, just require schools to publ…

What would happen if subsidized loans were simply capped at a much lower maximum? You'd expect enrollment to drop at first, but would universities adapt by lowering tuition? Or would the enrollment rates just stay low? Or would students take more expensive loans?

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#294

Post by sunstone » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

That's part of it but mostly it's due to rent seeking on the part of degree granting institutions.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#295

Post by jonathankoren » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:00 AM UTC

It’s fairly obvious about what is going on with tuition costs. The burden has shifted from the tax payers to students, due to budget cuts. If you simply put the funding levels back to 90s a lot of this would go away.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/a-lost-de...

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#296

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:02 AM UTC

TheHegemon wrote: post #240

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying new is basically a fools game now. Take note of vehicles with proven longevity and snatch them up when the depreciation makes them affordable.

Have you tried to buy a used care recently? A 2-year-old used car is usually within $1000~$2000 of the original selling price.

Body on frame trucks don't rust out like cars and are more than serviceable after 6 years of depreciation.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#297

Post by randyrand » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:03 AM UTC

eikenberry wrote: post #276

randyrand wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

here’s another thing to think about: - people want to go to name brand/Well known schools - The maximum number of schools that humans can remember in their brain is largely fixed - The population is increasing - Schools largely Don’t increase their enrollment size due to space and notoriety concerns you combine all the factors above and you should expect the price of top-tier schools go up dramatically with populatio…

But it has not been only top-tier universities whose tuition has increased so dramatically, it has been nearly every university. The only ones that haven't skyrocketed in price have been community colleges.

many factors.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#298

Post by sansnomme » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

kurthr wrote: post #277

hkmurakami wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a supporting data point, I looked up the stats. My “elite” undergrad institution increased enrollment by 14% in the last 15 years.

I don't think US population increased 14% in the last 15 years (even the world is barely 16%).

But people out of poverty and into middle class around the world has.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#299

Post by AlexCoventry » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:33 AM UTC

darepublic wrote: post #247

ineedasername wrote: post #64

I'm not sure the author's suggestion that potential students be diverted to trades/coding bootcampts etc., will solve too much, and instead may simply shift the problem into those trade industries as well. Somewhere in the ballpark of 2,000,000 students earn a bachelors degree each year. Let's say 25% of students should be diverted into trade schools instead. That will mean an additional 500,000 student per year ente…

That's why you should learn things you enjoy and find intrinsically valuable because there is never a guarantee of employability

That's a harmful attitude. Of course there's more reliable merit in studying things your community will value you and reward you for. If you do your own thing, hoping that it leads to something fabulous, you'd better take responsibility for the risk of failure.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#300

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:34 AM UTC

vageli wrote: post #258

rossdavidh wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) if it does turn out to be true that we need "fewer workers", that's great, we just move to a 30-hour work week (or 20, or whatever). We once had 6-day work weeks, or sometimes even 7, and it was productivity gains that allowed us to move to 5. We can move again. 2) But, I'm not sure it's even true. We mostly got to where we are by having all the manufacturing done in 3rd world countries for pennies. It's not that…

> 1) if it does turn out to be true that we need "fewer workers", that's great, we just move to a 30-hour work week (or 20, or whatever). We once had 6-day work weeks, or sometimes even 7, and it was productivity gains that allowed us to move to 5. We can move again. Shorten the work week and it is hourly workers getting screwed. Unless we think, for some reason, corporations will take it upon themselves to pay more…

I see no reason to think that full time salaries wouldn’t also fall. If the goal is to employ more people, the first solution that will be tried is “at roughly the same total labor expense”. Exempt employees will not be exempt from this pressure on wages.