Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste • Hacker News Board

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#161

Post by nkurz » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #123

whatshisface wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shipping over water is cheaper than shipping over land.

Only if you don’t price in environmental impact. Trains are much more efficient than ships in this regard and can be powered purely by green energy.

> Trains are much more efficient than ships in this regard

Is that really true? At least for CO2 emissions, other sources seem to imply the opposite, with ships being much more efficient than trains: https://truecostblog.com/2009/11/23/is-local-really-greener-...

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#162

Post by doomjunky » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #124

nitwit005 wrote: post #18

Other than the diplomatic issue of sending it back, "Asian countries take a stand against their own recycling industries" seems more accurate. There was someone buying it on the other end.

It’s also a good PR hit after the discovery that oceanic plastic pollution comes from a few rivers in Asia.

How can we find out whose garbage is it?

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#163

Post by ip26 » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 2:47 AM UTC

pen2l wrote: post #6

This might be a dumb question, but: why don't we do glass-style bottles? I live in America now, but when I used to live in Pakistan 20 years ago, I remember that I would buy pepsi or coki in a glass bottle... and if I wanted to buy a second one, I would go back to the store and give them the old empty bottle, and they would compensate me a few pennies for it -- and the bottle then is presumably washed and reused. It'…

The most legitimate challenge is branding. Each company wants their own style bottle, maybe with a certain color to protect it from light, or maybe just with a certain visual appeal. If you have a universal bottle, they can be collected & reused anywhere. Pretty simple. But if the ten thousand different drink companies each have to collect, sort, & ship their bottles back to their processing plants that suddenly becomes a massive problem.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#164

Post by JamesBarney » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 2:55 AM UTC

rlpb wrote: post #134

opportune wrote: post #3

As far as I can understand it, the recycling industry is a well-intentioned waste of resources. It would be much better for the environment for all this waste to be sequestered in a landfill than for people to pay to ship it around the world only for most of it to be dumped or rejected (which, even when the Asian countries in question do accept it, they are likely to do anyway). These materials (plastics) are so chea…

> it will probably never be economical to recycle them While we're talking in hypotheticals, I think the economics of recycling needs to take into account the negative externality of environmentally safe disposal cost in production. In other words, if we actually priced in the cost of safe disposal into the cost of plastic products, then recycling wouldn't have to be viable economically based on the price of recycled…

Are you talking the cost of putting it into a landfill?

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#165

Post by NeedMoreTea » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 2:57 AM UTC

siberianbear wrote: post #88

hexis wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bottle and can deposit has been going on in Massachusetts since at least the 80's (when I was growing up there) - https://www.mass.gov/deposit-bottle-can-recycling

I'm putting words in NeedsMoreTea's mouth here, but I think he was referring not to deposit schemes, but deposit and reuse schemes. In the 70s and 80s, soft drinks (at least in California where I lived) were packaged in really heavy, thick glass bottles. You paid a deposit on purchase, and a refund on turning it back in, and then the bottles were cleaned and reused . These schemes have seemingly all disappeared. Many…

Exactly so. As I understand it, the Vermont plan was drinks in containers that weren't being refilled were going to be banned. So wash and reuse or you ain't selling that beer. :)

Reused glass milk and pop bottles here in the UK didn't seem different in weight or thickness to non-returnable bottles of the same era. They've all got thinner over the years. The oldest milk bottles I can remember, from the 70s, were indeed quite chunky but they'd mostly gone by the 80s. No idea how long they'd been around though.

The last fizzy pop refilling scheme I know of died about 5 years ago, leaving just a few dairies using it for milk.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#166

Post by philliphaydon » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 3:07 AM UTC

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #143

mehrdadn wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We really just shouldn’t be using plastic for disposable products Huh... I would've expected to read we very much should be using plastics for disposables. (Do you want a metal or cloth trash bag?) Rather the problem I see is disposing so much in the first place.

I was more implying things like paper, but I see your confusion.

Paper cups for coffee and paper containers for food are lined which makes them difficult to recycle. Despite having a recycle logo on them they are often not recyclable.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#167

Post by sn41 » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 3:08 AM UTC

India is now having a plastic recycling problem of its own. Most cities in India do not own landfills, and their surrounding villages do not want a landfill in their backyard, even if the city wants to purchase it. What's the alternative to landfilling? My ignorant guess would be to use an abandoned mine or something of the sort. Is there a sustainable waste management technique?

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#168

Post by gaze » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 3:14 AM UTC

gingabriska wrote: post #93

I just bought 5 new Prusa i3 MK3 and I print lots of ABS and PETG parts, am I contributed to the plastic problem? Over last 1 month, I ended up using roughly 25KG of plastic.

That’s an enormous amount of plastic. Yes you are.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#169

Post by flyinghamster » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 3:16 AM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #45

pen2l wrote: post #6

This might be a dumb question, but: why don't we do glass-style bottles? I live in America now, but when I used to live in Pakistan 20 years ago, I remember that I would buy pepsi or coki in a glass bottle... and if I wanted to buy a second one, I would go back to the store and give them the old empty bottle, and they would compensate me a few pennies for it -- and the bottle then is presumably washed and reused. It'…

The US was gearing up nicely to require deposit and reuse schemes in the 50s or 60s. Vermont was about to require drinks be in reusable bottles. Pepsi, Coke, Budweiser, Philip Morris and others got together, conceived the idea of, funded and launched "Keep America Beautiful". Vermont was lobbied and the deposit scheme died, consumers were blamed for the whole problem via campaigns on littering, and industry could do…

On the other hand, up until about the late 1970s or early 80s, Coke and Pepsi in the US were typically sold in eight-packs of 16 fl. oz. returnable bottles. These were returned to the store, which refunded the deposit on the bottles, and the delivery trucks would take the empties back to the bottling plant to be cleaned and reused. The bottoms of old-school Coke bottles were stamped with their original bottling plant, as well, although bottles often turned up far from their original plants.

No need for laws, but then Big Soft Drink got greedy and pushed for the disposable mess we're now stuck with, because, hey, no more money spent on washing bottles.

I think it's about time more state legislatures enact bottle deposits. I've noticed that highways in Michigan ($0.10 bottle deposit) are a hell of a lot cleaner than in Illinois (no bottle deposit).

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#170

Post by saravana85 » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 3:17 AM UTC

Actually we are too late to act on this. But its a good initiative to begin with and need more actions to save the earth.

Recently heard that Philippines govt has announced that students should plant 10 trees before they could get a degree. Creative steps like these will take us closer to create great awareness.